Do you know much about Creation Science?

Discussion in 'Missions / Witnessing / eVangelism' started by Riley, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. Riley

    Riley
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    Hey, I'm Riley, 13. I need a little help from... well, pretty much anyone that knows a thing or two about Creation Science. I'm in a debate, entered by a friend, for Creation vs. Evolution. The debate is already started, and no new posters can join the thread. But if anyone is willing to help me (and my 3 friends) by answering the questions I post, it would be greatly appretiated. :)

    Riley*
     
  2. sag38

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    Post your questions. I'm sure you will get some good answers from both points of view.
     
  3. Riley

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    ok, thanks :) i'll post some when i get a chance. might not be til tomorrow.... but we'll see.
     
  4. Steven2006

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  5. Anthony

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    Hey Riley!

    I am a Christian with a science background.
    One of the bedrock laws of science is the Three Laws of Thermodynamics.
    No scientist questions them as they are not scientific theory - they are "law", settled and established.

    One of those laws as I interpret it is that all systems (living or not) tend to become more complex as time passes.
    This is because entropy (the loss of energy that is slowly using up all energy in the universe) favors those systems (creatures or machines) that use less energy.
    New cars are more complex than old cars - new computers are more complex than old computers - frogs are more complex than bacteria - and these are better because each uses energy more efficiently to survive and function.

    No complex creature ever evolves into a less complex one - it NEVER happens - they always evolve into something more complex.

    Systems that are less energy efficient become extinct as entropy uses up available energy.

    So the longer a system is around the more complex it becomes - if God was here before everyone else then he is more evolved and complex than any other system.

    Look up the Three Laws of Thermodynamics and try to understand them.

    Now if someone pops up with an objection that the Three Laws say things don't become more complex, they "tend toward randomness" - just ask them to define randomness.

    If they say "randomness is a lack of any order" ask them to explain the orderliness of a bag of seeds - thousands of them that are all alike - or people, billions of whom share the same basic features.

    Then watch them scratch their heads.

    If you're scratching your head over what I just said look up the Three Laws and ask someone to help you understand them.

    Enjoy the debate brother.

    God bless
     
  6. Riley

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    first of all, yes, thanks, i know all about AIG. Our SS class used it for 2 years in a row, and I'm relying on them for all of my answers in this debate already. :)

    Second, I'm a girl, so it would be sister, not brother. lol

    Anyways, I thought things tend towards disorder..? I mean, otherwise, doesn't it support evolution? I'll look it up...

    And God didn't evolve, ya know. He's always known everything.


    Thanks for the help I'll look that up. Now I have a question.



    It's about E. coli. Supposedly, it has "evolved" to another species or something. Please don't throw links at me in your answers, if you can help it. I'm looking at enough of them myself. And if at all possible, please keep the words on a middle school level. Thanks!!
     
  7. Anthony

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    oops my bad

    I use their argument against them Riley
    if evolution is correct, then God evolves too - and would be 12 billion years ahead of us

    it makes them think like they didn't before

    whenever you deal with science remember this;

    a medical doctor is a scientist (one who uses science)

    500 years ago doctors killed more patients than they saved, and killed many who would have lived had they been left alone

    - whenever science types get puffy remind them of that

    God bless sister
     
  8. Riley

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    ok, I get it Anthony. Thanks!! :)
     
  9. Riley

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    so any answers about the E. Coli?

    And I'm going to Albany for legislature day, so I'll be gone tomorrow and Tuesday.

    I'll check back first chance I get. (most likely on Wed.):flower:
     
  10. Riley

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    does anyone have anything for me?? I'm falling behind in my debate, since i try to go in order of questions. (and everything keeps coming back to this.) please, someone help me out. tnx.!
     
  11. matt wade

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    Riley, with all due respect, you are essentially asking someone to do your homework for you. While this may not be actual homework, it amounts to the same thing. We here are more than happy to share our beliefs and ideas with you, but you entered this debate...not us. If you need to find material to support your side of the debate, you need to do the research. You have the entire Internet at your fingertips and libraries have tons of book you can use to research the subject as well.
     
  12. Anthony

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    anyone ever tell you you're a jerk Matt?

    you need to take a look at that "we" thing you have too - you are not a "we"

    keep your chin up Riley
     
  13. StefanM

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    You are attempting to apply your interpretation of a physical law to a spiritual Being. Apples and oranges.
     
  14. StefanM

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    Process theologians (incorrectly) believe in a theological evolution of sorts, although not in a sense as you mention.

    The theory of evolution pertains to biological matter, not spiritual factors. God would not have to "evolve," even if evolution is true.

    I wouldn't play the scientist game. Christianity has had its fair share of bloodshed too, unfortunately.
     
  15. Riley

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    thanks, anthony. :)

    ok, so i HAVE done some research, and gotten some advise. and actually, what I've found is that even though the evolutionists are saying that it is proof of evolution, that it really isn't. (but what's new.)

    The E. Coli is adapting. It may have changed kind, (unless they are outright lying) but nowhere that I have found does is actually come right out and say that it has gained information. THey have changed into a more "primitive" bacteria than E coli. So it totally goes against the theory of evolution, and doesn't present a problem for Creationists. :)
     
  16. StefanM

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    I really think you need to get a better understanding of evolutionary theory.
     
  17. Riley

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    Then do you wanna help me?



    And here is another basic question. Actually 2. Does anyone know of any peer reviewed Creationist sites and is AIG peer reviewed?
     
  18. MACE16

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    Riley, not sure about peer reviewed sites, but try Googling the International Journal for Creation Research. Hope that helps. Good luck on your debate. Hope you smoke 'em.
     
  19. Havensdad

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    Actually, bacteria have a way of incorporating and passing on new genetic material, through circular rings of DNA called "Plasmids". When a certain bacteria develops a resistance to a certain drug, it can pass this resistance to it's buddies, extremely quickly.

    Also, genes are constantly undergoing addition of new material, at least in germ line (non somatic, i.e. "sex cells" or "sperm and egg") cells, through several processes such as crossing over during synapsis, genetic recombination, etc. Mutations can also "shuffle" DNA, making the codon call for a completely different amino acid (and hence, a different protein structure).

    None of this really makes any difference to the debate, though. Let me give you an example.

    Suppose I found a car, laying in a field, upside down. I then begin to show you calculations, graphs, and figures, which "prove" the car could have fallen out of an air plane.

    Now, does that prove that the car did, in fact, fall out of an airplane? No, of course not. All I have proven, is that it is a possibility. It could have been dropped from a helicopter, it could have fallen off of a higher cliff, etc.

    In order for me to "Prove" that it was dropped by an airplane, I would need direct evidence. A statement from the pilot perhaps, or a flight plan showing that the plane had been there in the right place and the right time (and even then it would not "prove" it).

    Evolutionists attempt to do just this. IS it possible, that one could take an ancient bacteria, and in billions of years, possibly get a human by rearranging the DNA? Yes. Our DNA codes for the exact same proteins, and when you put the DNA in the right sequence you WILL get a human.

    Does that mean it can be done in the wild? Probably not: the factors inhibiting such a possibility would be great. There are some HUGE evolutionary hurdles in that sequence (such as the eye) which would make it near impossible.

    But even if it WERE possible, does that mean that it DID happen? No. Just like the car example above, proving something is POSSIBLE does not prove that it is ACTUAL.

    Beyond all this, the genetic system as a whole, is far to complicated and precise a process, to have just "happened". Amino acids cannot be linked, without codons (three base sections of mRNA) placing them in the proper sequence (via tRNA) to be meaningful. And codons cannot do this, without fully functioning cellular machinery, which cannot be made without the codons and functioning machinery to make them.

    Hope that helps.
     
    #19 Havensdad, Mar 28, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2009
  20. Jedi Knight

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