Do You Limit a Sovereign God?

HP: Thanks Donna. I believe I understand your desire to avoid the question I asked.

 

HP: I agree with your comments as I understand them.:thumbs:

In relationship to the OP, is there any reason to believe that God does not have His hand in the translation of His Word? Is there anything in God’s nature that would be opposed to the possibility that He might allow some to be led by the Spirit in the translation of His Word, and yet others to operate solely within their human abilities, even to the extent that God’s intents might in fact be misconstrued by some translations in the end? Can one simply state that translations are solely human effort? Is the Bible first and foremost a spiritual book that must be spiritually discerned, without which no correct rendering of at least portions of the text can be reasonably ascertained? Does the human mind, in and of itself apart from the aide of the Holy Spirit, have any ability to understand or comprehend spiritual matters in relation to Scripture?

 

HP: Are you saying all the above ‘cannot’ be inspired, or that they simply ‘are not’ but ‘could be?’ Is God’s Spirit shortened that He cannot speak His thoughts directly to man? I am not asking if in fact the Bible itself can be added to. You know we agree on that. I firmly believe we are clearly warned as to what will happen if we add or detract from the Bible itself.

I am asking if in fact God can, if He so desires, speak to you, even in an audible voice if He so chose, and that God, by His Spirit does not in fact confirm truth to our heart as we read the Word of God, translate the Word of God, or communicate the Word of God in such a way that one can rightfully say, God revealed that truth to my heart?

May I add for clarification that God has never spoken to me audibly, but I certainly do not limit God by saying that such a possibility could in fact happen. God has so impressed my via the Spirit that there was absolutely no mistaking as to a message He has desired to deliver to me personally. Certainly most if not all could say that could we not? God still speaks to men.

 

HP: Please be patient with my questions, and even forgive me DHK, for I know you are trying hard to make yourself clear, but are you 100 % sure of that or could there be the possibility that He in fact might have or even could in the future if He so desired to act in that manner?

I see a great danger in dealing with God, placing Him into a box without allowing for the possibility of my being in error. Certainly there are things Scripture tells us that we can say with 100% accuracy, such as God cannot lie, etc, but when it comes to things Scripture is basically silent on, such as to His involvement or the lack thereof in translating His Word, who are we to say that the possibility does not exist that He in fact has, or as I said will in the future, superintend over the translation of His own Word? Not I. I certainly would that possibility for God to act in any such manner if He so chose to or chooses to in the future.

For me, God would have to do something unusual for me to accept another translation for me to place my faith in as to the truth of salvation God has revealed to me via the pages of the KJV. If no one follows me in my faith of the accuracy of it, I will continue on alone…... But God be thanked I am in good company! I certainly do not go to the extremes of many KJVO if in fact the sentiments of those expressed here in some posts are indeed the sentiments of the group as a whole, none the less, the KJV is my Bible the Spirit uses in my life to guide me to that Heavenly City. I have full faith and confidence in its veracity and faithfulness to God’s Inspired Words when it was given.

Let me add that I would not say that the Spirit is not bound to the KJV, it is just the one He has placed my confidence in, a place to stand firm with full trust and assurance, not cast about between differing notions.

 

HP: First , you still avoid the direct questions I ask, but that is your privilege.

Second, the fact that God’s word is settled in heaven, does not in any way preclude it being accurately transcribed in His Word called the Bible. God's Word may remain aloof from others, but it is forever settled in my Bible for me.

HP: It must be field day with the Word of God. Step right up! Pick your favorite version. If you don’t like one, just try another. Gender neutral? No problem! Have a problem with a text? Pick one that has over 3000 omissions! Don’t like one worked over by only those believing in the Diety of Christ, we might just the one for you. Have a problem with verbal inspiration, how about one following the theories of men that didn’t either!

God help us!

 

HP: That is my sentiments from what I have read as well. You put it very clearly and fair I believe with one exception. I would far rather term the W&H text in words that more closely resemble the facts. “Critical” needs always to be modified by adding ‘if you buy into their novel ideas of textual criticism, which is NOT a trustworthy scientific approach in the least.’ Their theories are based on assumptions, assumptions and theories that I believe are clearly in error, that have been proved wrong by great men and laymen alike.

I have before me several books, including Hermen Hoskier’s 2 volume book, entitled, “Codex B and its Allies.” I have tried to do my homework as best I can, and I can tell you what stands between the truth and the buying into the W&H theories of textual criticism. The difficult and arduous scientific approach of textual examination, something most are unwilling and few qualified to do it. It is a sad truth, but men seem always looking for a quick easy fix to their problems, a few easy to grasp theories that seem right on the surface that they can sink their teeth into. The truth is that such an approach may make one feel warm and fuzzy, seemingly with all the answers, but I for one believe they are faulty from their core.

It really boils down for most of us, trying to raise families, grandchildren, working long hours and handling family crisis after crisis at times, that the best we can do is to read about the issues as we can, pray that the Lord will grant to us wisdom, and place our faith where the Holy Spirit leads us. I can rest easy, knowing full well that God has not led me or my family astray with the 'faithful to the truth' KJV, and that by faith. It was good enough to carry my faithful forefathers heavenward bound and I will trust by faith in it to guide me safely to my heavenly reward!

There will be a day when the modern critics will stand speechless before the Author of that sacred book as so will we all. We shall all have our day in His Holy Court. I would not desire to be in some of their shoes.

 

We need to move quickly pass this agreement lest we kill good debate.:laugh:

Here is an issue that has not been raised thus far. Other than Ed, which has found, in his own mind at least, a version(s) to support individuals falling out of their graves thus signifying the rapture at a time his theology must need us all out of here, has there been any eye opening spiritual truth, any deeper spiritual insight, gained by any from the renderings of these modern versions?

 

HP: Nor reason I might add.

HP: Certainly. You are wise to do so.

HP: You raise an interesting point. Tell us Amy, how does one “fall away from the Christian faith?” You may be on to discovering some clear Biblical truth.

 

HP: The Church is nothing more or less than the collective body of individual believers. How can it be said that the Church is falling away from the faith into apostasy without individuals falling from the faith and moving into an apostate relationship?

When you are speaking of the Church, you are speaking of individuals. The church would be as hollow as a dried ham hanging from a ceiling hollowed out by a rat without individuals. I cannot see the validity of the distinction you are making. Possibly you can expound to make your point clearer.

 

HP: The notion that this verse is directed at the church body, which according to your statement now is anyone that evidently darkens the door of the church building, is simply not an idea that one can gain from this text or any other. That is false conjecture that is unsupported by Scripture, and represents a complete misunderstanding as to who comprises the church. ‘Believers’ comprise the body of Christ, the Church, not unbelievers.

Unbelievers cannot fall away from a body they have never been a part of. Do I need to repeat the things persons can do outwardly but have no relationship whatsoever of being part of God’s church? Darkening the door of a church, placing ones name upon a roll, preaching in the pulpit, singing in the choir, nor anything other than being born again, places one within the body of Christ known as the Church.