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Featured Do you really understand your 'opponents' views?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Skandelon, Mar 25, 2012.

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  1. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    So do Arminians

    No, he sees man as utterly depraved and incapable of a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ without a special intervention of God's Grace.. unless I am mistaken about Skan's personal views...in which event I am sorry if I misinterpret them.

    Is oxymoronic, there is no such thing in either the Calvinist or Arminian system as it is decidedly un-scriptural.
     
    #21 HeirofSalvation, Mar 27, 2012
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Well...lets see:
    from A Baptist Cathechism with Commentary...by WR. Downing...used by permission:thumbs::thumbs:


     
    #22 Iconoclast, Mar 27, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 27, 2012
  3. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Welcome to the board HOS... :D
     
    #23 Benjamin, Mar 27, 2012
  4. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    You have just answered the question of the OP by showing that you do not understand your opponents position.

    Faith cometh by hearing from God, and thus is not 'inherent in fallen man.' The fact that we affirm man's ability to respond willingly in faith or trade the truth in for a lie doesn't negate the fact that we affirm the need of God's initial enabling work. In other words, we too affirm that faith is a gift of God, but we just don't assume a gift must be effectually applied for the giver to get the credit for giving it.
     
    #24 Skandelon, Mar 28, 2012
  5. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    You speaking out of both sides of your mouth,does not equate to any misunderstanding on my part

     
    #25 Iconoclast, Mar 28, 2012
  6. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Amen!! :applause: :thumbsup::thumbs::applause:
     
    #26 convicted1, Mar 28, 2012
  7. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Actually you are both incorrect and Iconoclast has identified 'skans' position correctly. He says gift in one post then 'its within mans ability' in another.

    So hold the applause, it doesn't represent truth nor make his response accurate by any means. :)

    Iconoclast is dead on.
     
    #27 preacher4truth, Mar 28, 2012
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Well, I guess I don't know yall's side after all.

    I'll keep an eye out**wink, wink*** and maybe I'll gain a better understanding. :laugh: :D
     
    #28 convicted1, Mar 28, 2012
  9. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Brother Skan stated that it's within man's ability to respond in faith after God shows them and draws them(gift of faith given to them by God, I mean), but it doesn't mean they'll come....or that's what I think Bro. Skan stated. This is how I see it. No one can, or better yet, will want to call out to God until He first draws them. God drew me for years, but I rebelled and went the other way.

    Faith is a gift of God, but a gift can also be rejected. Once the gift of faith was given to me, it's mine. That's why the bible states to add to your faith, knowledge, temperance, patience, brotherly kindness, etc.
     
    #29 convicted1, Mar 28, 2012
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Willis,
    After God gives saving faith...men exersize it...see post 22
     
    #30 Iconoclast, Mar 28, 2012
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Someone puh-leeze explain to me how this does NOT meet the definition of Synergism.
     
    #31 kyredneck, Mar 28, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 28, 2012
  12. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    :thumbs: Thank you for understanding a restating my views correctly. That is a rare gift around here apparently. :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #32 Skandelon, Mar 28, 2012
  13. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    God may require a condition (faith) to be met before he regenerates someone, but that doesn't mean man 'participates in the work of regeneration.' The work itself is all of God's, but it is only done to those who believe in Christ.

    Scripture teaches that we are made alive through faith. Faith is the condition, the means, by which God does the work of regeneration, but that work is still all of Him. Make sense?
     
    #33 Skandelon, Mar 28, 2012
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    If there is a CONDITION that man has the choice to meet, then the human will has just cooperated with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration. Period.

    Why? Why the resistance to being defined as a synergist? This very simple, concise definition does indeed describe the free will soteriology.
     
    #34 kyredneck, Mar 28, 2012
  15. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith Active Member

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    Is synergism a dirty word?
     
    #35 quantumfaith, Mar 29, 2012
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    NO!

    ....or at least I don't think so. I believe it to be an accurate, brief definition of the free will soteriology.

    I believe the REAL problem with it is that it represents a 'label', you know, like Calvinist, or hyper, or something.
     
    #36 kyredneck, Mar 29, 2012
  17. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    This isn't about 'yalls' side (ours) this is about the fact you don't know what he teaches; 'it's a gift in one thread'...in another 'no, it's within mans ability.'

    How you turned my post around to being an expression of 'our side' when I was simply showing you that Iconoclast was accurate in representing sanks views is beyond me brother.
     
    #37 preacher4truth, Mar 29, 2012
  18. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Sorry if you thought I was turning your post into something else. That wasn't my attempt. I was trying to make a funny about the man who lost his glass eye after being baptized every time he was "saved".
     
    #38 convicted1, Mar 29, 2012
  19. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    #39 Michael Wrenn, Mar 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 29, 2012
  20. HeirofSalvation

    HeirofSalvation Well-Known Member
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    Just a quick observation: As a Baptist...I am by definition...non-credal Although not inherently wrong per se.....What is with all of this incessant "catechism" ..."confessions".."historic faith" etc.....What Baptist really gives a (*&%&^ about that stuff? ICON...are you a Baptist? I assume you are...and I don't mean to say that these creeds of yours don't have intellectual value...but do you realize that to many Baptists... all we begin to hear is: "The Holy Mother Church-by the Authority of God's vicarious representative of Jesus Christ on Earth-His Holiness-Pope UglyHat the XVI, has decreed unto us that.....blah blah blah"
    This is not meant to be insulting...I just think that tends to be somewhat ineffective...Baptists don't just incidentally not use creeds...they HATE and FEAR them. I know that for my part.. I begin to hear the "The Westminster confession says....":sleep:
     
    #40 HeirofSalvation, Mar 29, 2012
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