Featured Do you really understand your 'opponents' views?

Iconoclast · Mar 31, 2012

HeirofSalvation said: ↑

No, Icon..... They are arguing against YOUR PARTICULAR CONCEPT OF COVENANT THEOLOGY. Seriously, ask the Lvl. 55 Calvinist clerics in the smoke-filled rooms and they will admit that to a great degree... its just a rhetorical device. They wouldn't admit it to me, but they would to you I think.

And.....I will submit some equally germaine verses to support Arminianism/Calvinism/Dispensationalism/Manicheanism...heck pick one:

14And the LORD spake unto Moses in the wilderness of Sinai, saying, 15Number the children of Levi after the house of their fathers, by their families: every male from a month old and upward shalt thou number them. 16And Moses numbered them according to the word of the LORD, as he was commanded. 17And these were the sons of Levi by their names; Gershon, and Kohath, and Merari. 18And these are the names of the sons of Gershon by their families; Libni, and Shimei. 19And the sons of Kohath by their families; Amram, and Izehar, Hebron, and Uzziel. 20And the sons of Merari by their families; Mahli, and Mushi. These are the families of the Levites according to the house of their fathers.

21Of Gershon was the family of the Libnites, and the family of the Shimites: these are the families of the Gershonites. 22Those that were numbered of them, according to the number of all the males, from a month old and upward, even those that were numbered of them were seven thousand and five hundred. 23The families of the Gershonites shall pitch behind the tabernacle westward. 24And the chief of the house of the father of the Gershonites shall be Eliasaph the son of Lael.

25And the charge of the sons of Gershon in the tabernacle of the congregation shall be the tabernacle, and the tent, the covering thereof, and the hanging for the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, 26And the hangings of the court, and the curtain for the door of the court, which is by the tabernacle, and by the altar round about, and the cords of it for all the service thereof.

UHHH...Yeah....Conveniently...They come to us in the context of a man who was dubbed a heretic By the RCC (as though that means anything). HONESTLY Icon please answer me this question....If Pelagius were vindicated...and declared a Saint: Do you HONESTLY BELIEVE Cals would be using that comparison to refer to non-cals?
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Do not focus on the persons...it is about the teaching. Romans 6 cannot be written any clearer than it is.

They are arguing against YOUR PARTICULAR CONCEPT OF COVENANT THEOLOGY
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The Covenant is in scripture and revealed...it is not a mystery ,or unknown. Most baptists are like Johns disciples in Acts 19...we have not even heard there is a covenant

seekingthetruth · Apr 1, 2012

Iconoclast said: ↑

God has given Godly teachers to teach....that implies learners,students, disciples.

John...as you try "just the bible" feel free to interact and correct any of the posted confessions or cathechisms......Did you read my answer to you on this??? Cathechising is biblical instruction;

Quote:
17
INTRODUCTION
Scriptures
“Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest
thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest
they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach
them thy sons, and thy sons’ sons…the LORD said unto
me…I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to
fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that
they may teach their children.” Deut. 4:9–10
“And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in
thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy
children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine
house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest
down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a
sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between
thine eyes. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy
house, and on thy gates.” Deut. 6:4–9
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable
for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly
furnished unto all good works.” 2 Tim. 3:16–17
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that
needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2
Tim. 2:15
“…ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring
them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.” Eph. 6:4
The Term “Catechize”
The English word “catechism” is derived from the Gk. verb katēchēo, “to
resound, teach orally, instruct by mouth.” This term originally had the idea of
“speaking down or from above” i.e., from actors on an elevated stage. It is a
compound of the preposition kata, “down, throughout, thoroughly” and the
verb ēchēo, “to sound,” the source of our English word, “echo.” There seems
to be in this etymology the idea of a responsive answer. Catechizing has the
connotation of thorough or repeated oral instruction, and is only one of
several related terms for instruction or teaching found in Scripture. The term
itself occurs eight times in the New Testament (twice as “informed” in Acts
21:21, 24, referring to word–of–mouth information):
“That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou
hast been catechized.” Luke 1:4.18
“This man had been constantly catechized in the way of the Lord;
and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the
things of the Lord...” Acts 18:25.
“And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more
excellent, being constantly catechized out of the law...” Romans
2:18.
“Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my
understanding, that by my voice I might catechize others also, than
ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.” 1 Cor. 14:19.
“Let him who is being catechized in the word communicate unto him
who catechizes in all good things.” Gal. 6:6.C. H. Spurgeon on Catechizing

Quote:
QUESTION 1: Why use a catechism?
ANSWER: There are several reasons why churches, families and individuals
should make good use of a suitable catechism:
1. The use of a catechism is scriptural in principle and is based upon the
Divine mandate for biblical instruction in the Old Testament and also
the inspired example of the New Testament (Deut. 4:9–10; 6:4–9; Lk.
1:4; Gal. 6:6; Eph. 6:1–4). The question–and–answer format of
modern catechisms is incidental to the pervading scriptural principle
23
of catechizing, which evidently consisted of repetitive oral
instruction, commitment to memory and an oral response.

Quote:
Some Objections Against Catechizing Answered
OBJECTION ONE: Why, as Baptists, use a catechism? Do not catechisms
belong only to the Romanists, Lutherans or Reformed Christians? We have
only one creed—the Bible! We will not and cannot put any literature on
par with the Scriptures, or add to the Word of God in any way.

Quote:
Baptists used catechisms extensively and with much spiritual profit
until the past century. This objection itself demonstrates the sad
departure of some Baptists from their own doctrinal distinctives and
practice, and the ignorance of some modern Baptists concerning their
own history and spiritual heritage. Following are some of the more
well–known catechisms written and used by Baptists:
• Henry Jessey, Particular Baptist, A Catechism for Babes, or Little
Ones, 1652.
• Hercules Collins, Particular Baptist, The Orthodox Catechism
(adapted from the Heidelberg Catechism), 1680.
• Thomas Grantham, General Baptist, St. Paul’s Catechism (based
on the six principles of Hebrews 6), 1687.
• Benjamin Keach and William Collins, The Baptist Catechism,
1693.
• The Philadelphia Baptist Association of Particular Baptists
published a catechism appended to their Philadelphia Confession
of Faith, 1742.
• William Gadsby, Gospel Standard Baptist, published a catechism
entitled The Things Most Surely Believed Among Us, 1809.
• C. H. Spurgeon published A Baptist Catechism (compiled from
the Westminster Shorter Catechism and Keach’s Baptist
Catechism), 1855.
• The Sunday School Board of the Southern Baptist Convention
published two catechisms: the first by J. P. Boyce, A Brief
Catechism of Bible Doctrine (1864) and the second by John A.
Broadus (1892). The latter work was jointly published by both the
Southern Baptist Convention and the American Baptist
Publication Society.

As a Baptist ...I always recommend this one for everyone;
http://www.lulu.com/shop/w-r-downing...F9CD305848B0AF
__________________
All that die have not the plague, and all that
perish eternally are not guilty of the same profligate sins.The covetous are
excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators,
idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.

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Last edited by Iconoclast; Yesterday at 04:58 PM.
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I only have a high school education, and even i could write a 'creed" 'confesstion" or "Catechism"

That would not make it any more valid than any other one ever written.

They are never equal to the Bible, and should not be relied on as "The Word of God". They are the teachings of men, not God.

John

Iconoclast · Apr 1, 2012

seekingthetruth said: ↑

I only have a high school education, and even i could write a 'creed" 'confesstion" or "Catechism"

That would not make it any more valid than any other one ever written.

They are never equal to the Bible, and should not be relied on as "The Word of God". They are the teachings of men, not God.

John
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The idea of a creed ...is simple ...it means i believe

John when someone asks you a bible question.....whatever you answer them is your .......creed.....it is what you believe.

A Cathechism...is instruction..in a question and answer format. It is only meant to be a study aid....not a substitue for the scripture.

Every good creed,or cathechism should assist us in coming to know Jesus and his word better. They are not written to confuse people, but to help.

They are not exhaustive....but an outline to point someone into the scriptures.
the one I use is loaded with scriptures on every page....You can look at any paragraph, and use it to launch into a series of bible studies.

John.....any teaching we receive comes from men, unless you are just reading bible verses.
[QUOTE 29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
][/QUOTE]

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