Do you worship Christ or Paul?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by TexasSky, May 15, 2005.

  1. TexasSky

    TexasSky
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    This has been on my heart a lot lately.
    Please don't misunderstand me. I like Paul. I think he was an amazing man of God, but I love Christ, and it has begun to worry me that I can run into more and more Christians who refer to Paul as if HE is the messiah.

    They don't call him that of course. They would never say it, probably not think it. It is just that they never mention Matthew, Mark, Luke or John. Never quote the words of Christ directly. They only refer to Paul. "Paul said this," "Paul said that," "In Paul's letter to...". I think of Paul like a 1st-Century Billy Graham. I think it would bother him to know that some churches and many Christians spend months and months reading his words about Christ without ever reading Christ's words.

    Am I the only one who feels that Christ's words should hold more meaning to us all than Paul's words about Christ?
     
  2. menageriekeeper

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    Thank You Texas Sky.

    I have felt the same way for years. I believe Paul's words should be taken in the context of what Christ said. Not the other way around.
     
  3. gb93433

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    All scripture is inspired by God. So none of it is less than the other. If you do what you advocate then you are taking upon your self to be the judge. That is exactly what liberals and the Jesus seminar has done.

    Preaching Paul's letters is much easier than the gospels. Preaching the gospels requires a lot more work to understand the OT and the practices among the religious Jews at the time so that one can understand what Jesus was referring to.
     
  4. TexasSky

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    All scripture is inspired by God. So none of it is less than the other. If you do what you advocate then you are taking upon your self to be the judge. That is exactly what liberals and the Jesus seminar has done.
    -------
    All scripture is inspired by God - Wouldn't that mean that we should study ALL scripture then? Including Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Or Peter?
    Or I,II,III John? Or Proverbs? Exodus?
     
  5. menageriekeeper

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    What? You think Christ couldn't figure out a way for His original words to be meaningful to people today?

    And I don't recall saying that Paul's word were less than Christ's. What I said was that Paul's word's should be compared to and taken in by the light of Christ's word. (That's pretty close to saying that scripture should be interpeted by scripture, I simply pointed out which scripture I thought should be interpeted by which other scripture)
     
  6. gb93433

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    That's my point.
     
  7. gb93433

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    Not at all. Compare the qualifications for pastors and deacons and read what Jesus said about it. Each part of scripture must be interpreetd in light of its historical context. If you try and interpret salvation in 1 Peter in light of what Paul wrote in his letters you will not interpret the salvation Peter writes about correctly. It's much like taking corn and potatoes and mixing them together. You will have neither corn nor potatoes. You have something entirely different.
     
  8. TexasSky

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    God is unchanging though. The scriptures do compliment one another. They do not contradict one another.
     
  9. menageriekeeper

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    I really am tired tonight, so you're really going to have to point out to just what Peter says about salvation that is so different from what Paul says.

    Do the words "with the precious blood of Christ"(Peter 1:19) not mean essentially the same thing as "redemption through His blood" (Eph. 1:7)?
     
  10. gb93433

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    Peter uses salvation in the future tense whereas Paul uses it in three tenses--past, present and future.
     
  11. menageriekeeper

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    I'm going to save it for morning, but I still don't see your point.

    Night.
     
  12. gb93433

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    They always give out the same message but not always using the same words. For example compare Matthew 8:28-29, Mark 5:1-2 and Luke 8:27-28. Is it one or two demoniacs? If you interpret each passage literally you will call God's word a liar.
     
  13. gb93433

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    You must interpet what Peter writes in light of any other writing he writes and Paul in light of what other writings he writes. You cannot interpret Peter in light of what Paul writes. Their message complements but you cannot interpret each one as though they were writing the same letter together as one to the same people. Each writer wrote in a different context for a different reader and a different purpose for the letter. Just as I pointed out in Mt. 8;28-29, Mk. 5:1-2 and Lk. 8:26-27.

    Another good example is found in Mark 2:4 and Luke 5:19. One says tiles another says roof. The message is exactly the same but the kind of roof material would have been quite different in the two different areas. We do exactly the same thing when we communicate the same story to two different people especially is one will comprehend things very differently. We do the same thing. I would talk with a farmer about agriculture very differently than I would someone who knows nothing about farming. The message is the same but the words we use may be very different.
     
  14. Joseph_Botwinick

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    The writings of Paul in the Bible are the Word of God and therefore, are also Christ's words. Only liberals who don't like the full council of the Word of God try to pit Christ against Paul.

    1 Corinthians 1:12

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  15. TexasSky

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    Joseph,

    Since the day I came to this board I have felt you almost stalking me on the board to put hostile words that are phrased as an attack or an insult.

    I am far from liberal.

    No do I try to "pit" Christ against Paul.

    I simply have a concern that some people treat Paul with MORE respect than they treat Christ.

    I also have a great concern over why you seem to follow each post I make with bitter words that either border on insult or flat out insult.

    So, as one Christian to another, I ask you, why do you seem to hound me on these boards?
     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    This is a discussion board. If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, then you need to leave now, because you will not be happy here. Nobody is stalking you and nobody is forcing you to stay. My disagreeing with your heretical, liberal ideas does not equal stalking.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  17. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I think you are a bit too sensitive and are reading more into my comments than are really there. If you cannot handle dissent oir differing opinions, then you probably should not be on a discussion board.

    I am far from liberal.[/QUOTE]

    From what I have seen of you so far, I would say this is not true, IMO.

    No do I try to "pit" Christ against Paul. [/QUOTE]


    Yes you certainly did right here:

    Since all scripture is the Word of God, all Scripture is also the words of Christ. The question not only pits Christ against Paul, but also against himself. It is liberal and heretical.

    I simply have a concern that some people treat Paul with MORE respect than they treat Christ. [/QUOTE]

    Perhaps, you might give a specific example?

    I also have a great concern over why you seem to follow each post I make with bitter words that either border on insult or flat out insult. [/QUOTE]

    You are wrong about that, and don't have a legitimate concern.

    So, as one Christian to another, I ask you, why do you seem to hound me on these boards? [/QUOTE]

    It is all in your mind. I am responding to your topics. This is a discussion board. If you cannot handle discussion that doesn't simply agree with you, perhaps this isn't the place for you.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  18. gb93433

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    I think you did when you made the statement, "Am I the only one who feels that Christ's words should hold more meaning to us all than Paul's words about Christ?"
     
  19. TexasSky

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    Joseph,

    I do not mind people disagreeing with me.
    I mind people twisting my words, as you often do.
    I mind people throwing insults, as you often do.

    My "liberal" views are the following:

    That God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one.
    That God created the Heavens and the Earth.
    That man sinned, and that sin caused a separation of man from God.
    That God loved the world so much, that He sent His only begotten son, born of a virgin, to live as among us.
    That Christ died to pay the price for our sins.
    That on the 3rd day He rose from the grave.
    That He ascended into heaven.
    That He will come again.

    I believe that Christ taught "Judge not, lest ye be judged."
    I believe that Christ said the greatest commandment is to love God with all we are, and the second greatest is to love our neighbors.

    I believe that God is unchanging, and that the sin which broke His heart in Eden still breaks His heart today.

    I believe Christ meant what Christ taught to be taught to all men.

    I believe Christ is the Alpha and the Omega.

    I believe that the Bible is the unerring word of God, kept pure by the will of God.

    If that is liberal - well, yes, I'm liberal.

    Now, if what I stated above is "heritical" tell me what is it exactly you believe?
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Nope. Your idea that we should favor one part of scripture over another is heretical and offensive. Nice try at changing the subject, though.

    Joseph Botwinick
     

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