Does a Pastor HAVE to take a stand on election/predestination in sermons?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JRG39402, Jan 5, 2007.

  1. JRG39402

    JRG39402
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    Does a Pastor HAVE to take a stand on election/predestination in sermons? What do you think?
     
  2. J.D.

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    If he preaches topically he can avoid the issue. But if he preaches the whole counsel of God, verse by verse, he will eventually have to stand on one side or the other.
     
  3. reformedbeliever

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    A pastor does not have to do anything.... of course he may not remain a pastor for long. Many pastors do not know enough about election or predestination, to be able to preach/teach about it.

    The Word of God is inspired. Election and predestination are present in the bible for a reason. I believe that all the Word of God should be preached/taught.

    Paul told Timothy to preach the Word. He didn't say to leave some of it out. As a matter of fact, he told Timothy that the time would come when people would accumulate teachers to tickle their ears, that they would not stand for sound teaching. That has happened. It is happening.

    People today want to turn away from the truth. The truth is that we need Jesus. We are going to have to become fatalists....lol. We need to die to self and to depend upon the Sovereign God of all that is created. We need to trust Jesus.
     
  4. Bob Farnaby

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    A pastor has to preach the Word of God, to prayerfully deliver the message God has given to him as he prepares.

    Over the years I have known pastors who hold differing views on election and exactly what it is, and have therefore delivered different messages based on the same passages of scripture - each convinced that he is following God's leading. So what is a pastor to do? Preach as God leads, and encourage the congregation to search the scriptures to see if what he says is right - just as Paul did to the Bereans. Share the outcome of your studies, say why you are convinced one way or the other, accept that not all will agree with you, and always seek to know the scripture better.

    The stand on election isn't you making a position, its sharing what you have been convinced by the Holy Spirit is the message given to you for this sermon, or discussion. NEVER let it be a case of Arminius vs Calvin, both were men, and neither wrote scripture.

    Regards
    Bob
     
  5. Bro. James Reed

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    Not only must he take a stand, but if he wishes to preach at our church, he must take the correct stand.

    This shouldn't be a question one still wonders after they've selected a Pastor. If you don't know what a preacher believes and preaches on major doctrinal issues such as these, you have no business asking him to be Pastor.
     
  6. El_Guero

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    I know scripture that commands us to preach repentance. I know scripture that commands us to repent. I am commanded to preach about Jesus and His death, burial, and resurrection - and His salvation.

    I do not remember scripture that tells me to preach election/predestination.

     
  7. reformedbeliever

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    How about the one that says to preach the word? You know the one.... its the one that says that men would not stand for sound teaching... something about myths?
     
  8. El_Guero

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    Men sure do love to focus on myth and not on the Gospel.

    Sadly lost men, women, and children die and go to Hell every day for want of those that will preach the Word. It is sad that there are those that preach their personal version of the Gospel and never preach the Word of God.

    Yep, Paul was difficult to understand and there are those that twist his words to their own destruction.

     
  9. reformedbeliever

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    Agreed. Its not only Paul's teaching that is twisted. Much of what Jesus Himself said was/is disregarded or twisted.
     
  10. pinoybaptist

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    Oh, poor God, all those planning before the foundation of the world, all that covenanting....
    Oh, poor Jesus, my poor, poor, Jesus.
    All that humility, all that obedience, all that pain, all that blood, and no one, not one, saved because of want of those that will preach the Word.
    Oh, sob, sob, sob.
    Oh, poor Holy Spirit.
    Wooing, wooing, wooing, and not able to convict anyone unless there are those willing to go and preach.

    I better worry about mother earth, and about all these things going on in the world.
    Perhaps God really is not as powerful as He says He is.
    I better be scared of demons, and worry about possession, and witchcraft.
    Perhaps God really doesn't stand a chance against all these.

    Woe, woe, woe.
     
    #10 pinoybaptist, Jan 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2007
  11. mnw

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    {edited to remove post}
     
    #11 mnw, Jan 6, 2007
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  12. Pastor Larry

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    He only needs to take a position when the Bible does. And since the Bible does take a position, then the pastor better take one. You cannot preach the word of God without preaching election and predestination. And to borrow from Spurgeon said, to do so is simply to preach the gospel.

    An arminian can preach the gospel, and he should. A Calvinist can preach the gospel and he should.

    Why is it that there is still so much misunderstanding that people think preaching the gospel is somehow contrary to election and predestination? (And some of you think I am crazy when I tell you you don't understand the issue.)
     
  13. El_Guero

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    Poor pitiful you . . .

    I am obedient to God's plan. The plan was not for Jesus to personally proclaim the Gospel. But, the plan is for God to proclaim through His servants the Gospel.

    All that was sacrificed so that we might have the privilege of being obedient and humble under His mighty hand.

    Preach the Word. In season and out. If you cannot do that, I can.


    I pray that your mockery of God was out of context for what you truly believe.
     
  14. Brother Bob

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    edit post.................
     
  15. saturneptune

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    Good to see you Brother Bob
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    You too.............
     
  17. Grasshopper

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    I would say most preachers are not obsessed with this subject as many on this board are. If a preacher has a particular view on it he should preach it, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. If he doesn't come down on one side or the other, then perhaps lay out both views and everything in the middle and encourage the audience to study the subject for themelves.

    I'm a 5 pointer my pastor is a 3-4 pointer we have fun discussions but he teaches what he believes and I believe what I believe.
     
  18. pinoybaptist

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    hey, man. look, I don't know you from Adam, and that was not meant to insult you at all. just my manner of speaking, as you have yours.
    But then think about what you were saying.
    You were saying that a God who is able to create galaxies populated with planets and stars and all those simply by speaking is unable to save His people without a finite, puny fallen sinner who will willingly take up His cudgel.

    Let me quote you :

    "Sadly lost men, women, and children die and go to Hell every day for want of those that will preach the Word..."

    I will agree with that statement, to a certain point. First, there are no more "lost men, women, and children" after the cross, but that is worthy of a different discussion.
    Let us focus on your thesis.
    You are saying that these people go to hell not for want of a Savior, not for want of a God who is merciful and loving, not for want of grace, not for want of mercy, but for want of those that will preach the word.
    Never mind that God wrote down names of people whose names He personally called out, never mind that God wrote those names down before the foundation of the world, never mind that God called the book where those names were written "the Lamb's book of Life", never mind that God has repeatedly said that He is God and there is no one beside Him, and what He purposes in His mind He will do, never mind that Scripture says He does what He wills in the army of heaven and of earth, and never mind all of those Scriptures that attest to the inviolability and Sovereignty of God's will and Person.

    Never mind that God condescended in His own due time, according to His own will, among sinners, never mind that He meticulously planned the timing, the location, the events, never mind that Jesus Christ left all His glories in Heaven to endure the death on the cross. Never mind the stripes He received, Isaiah was wrong (and therefore the Holy Spirit was wrong, and so God was wrong) about His people being healed by His stripes, because if we go by what you are saying, the gospel heals their stripes, and the preachers of the gospel bring the healing.

    Never mind all that.

    As long as there is a lack of preachers willing to sacrifice self and all in order to preach the gospel, men, women, and children will perish and go to hell, to hell which was the very place that Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, did not want them to go. All the Godhead's wants and purposes come to naught because of lack of preachers.

    If the glory in your thesis is not placed on man, I don't know what to say anymore.

    The fact is that God's plan and purpose was to save His people. They were His people from before the foundation of the world. In eternity past He spoke to Satan, heard in time when He spoke to Pharaoh and said: Let my people go.

    That plan is done, fini, culminated.

    God, in Christ, successfully saved all His people, past, present, future.
    With or without preachers He reached out, reaches out, and will reach out to them.
    If God calls you, or me, or anyone else, to a faraway land to preach the gospel, it will not be to save the hearers from eternal punishment, but to save them from timely sorrows due to the effects of sin by gathering them into a gospel church and feeding them gospel preaching and it don't matter the persecutions we experience, or the hardships, or hunger, or whatever,we have no right to one iota of glory, praise, or adulation from anyone.
     
    #18 pinoybaptist, Jan 6, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2007
  19. reformedbeliever

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    I agree Grasshopper. The sad fact is that many will simply deny election and predestination........ They speak of election and predestination as it is something to be ashamed of and not spoken of..... or would rather simply take it out of the Word of God.,
     
  20. webdog

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    To answer the OP, yes, a pastor should take a stand. The correct stand in context of where election and predestination are applied. Unfortunately, it is assumed the calvinist idea of those terms is the correct one.
     

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