does ANYBODY like....

Originally posted by Clean1:
if the people who write these songs are singing to get attention then that isn't glorifying God. don't tell me that they aren't singing to get attetnion.... your not them so don't answer for them.


Maybe you shouldn't answer for them either. You are attempting to discern a motive, but only because you dislike the music. Just because you dislike the presentation doesn't give you the right to disparage people. There are many pastors with whom I disagree with delivery, but it doesn’t mean their motives or words are wrong.

[ November 07, 2005, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: Brice ]

 

Its funny how we try to imply Jesus wouldn’t do something just because we don’t like it. Would Jesus listen to hymns? Would Jesus listen to bluegrass? Would Jesus watch Sportscenter? Would Jesus watch The Passion? Would Jesus speed? Would Jesus use His blinker when turning? I would think that if Jesus saw a group reaching a lost culture and we have no reason to doubt their motives (and if the words are clearly ok), that Jesus would be happy. These groups are trying to reach a culture that many have trouble reaching. We are supposed to try our best to do as Jesus would do, but your preference does not dictate what Jesus would or wouldn’t do!! Funny thing is I HIGHLY doubt Jesus would be sitting here typing on Baptist Board. I would imagine Jesus probably wouldn’t use the internet at all, but that is my opinion not fact. By the way your quote that says “just because it has christian lyrics doesn't make it a christian song”, simply disqualifies everything. This basic assertion would also disqualify hymns.

 

Show me where it doesn't. Include Book, Chapter, and verse. </font>[/QUOTE]We don't have to. The Scriptures state that all things in worship are to be decent (or seemly) and in order. If you're saying that rap is a hallowed form of worship, you have the burden of showing how it is compatible with God's standard of decency.

David danced before the Lord in the OT.

He also sacrificed animals. Show where Christ or the Apostles danced in their worship. </font>[/QUOTE]Worship - The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.

Reverence - A feeling of profound awe and respect and often love; veneration.

So now we can establish that worship is an expression of love and reverence is a feeling of respect and love.

Decent - Characterized by conformity to recognized standards of propriety or morality.

Order - A condition of logical or comprehensible arrangement among the separate elements of a group.

It seems that by definition this leaves things pretty open. IMO this is meant to be because we are all different and will obviously worship God in different ways and by different means.


Here is a great hymn – Great is Thy Faithfulness
Great is Thy faithfulness, O God my Father;
There is no shadow of turning with Thee;
Thou changest not, Thy compassions, they fail not;
As Thou hast been, Thou forever will be.
Refrain
Great is Thy faithfulness!
Great is Thy faithfulness!
Morning by morning new mercies I see.
All I have needed Thy hand hath provided;
Great is Thy faithfulness, Lord, unto me!
Summer and winter and springtime and harvest,
Sun, moon and stars in their courses above
Join with all nature in manifold witness
To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.
Refrain
Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth
Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow,
Blessings all mine, with ten thousand beside!
Refrain


Now here is Cross Movements’ - Lord You Are (2x)

[Chorus]
Every time I think of You
When I think about the things You do
Oh it's not too hard to see it's not what You do but its who You are
Good, Holy, Pure, all of this and God You're so much more!
Doin' your will
I can just chill
Focus on who You are

(Lord You Are)
Kindness, Compassion, Timeless, Matchless, Divine in Your actions
(Lord You Are)
The Bedrock of trust
Sin stops on your block cause You're the head cop You're Just
(Lord You Are)
So Gracious and Merciful
Praise - You deserve it, so worthy of worship, Oh!
(Lord You Are)
We call You hope, we call You Peace and Love
You're all of these – You're all of the above

[Verse One]
The Bible told me holy are Your ways (Your ways)
Nobody stops or had to start Your days (Your days)
So I marvel at Your endlessness
And at the fact that You're righteous, You're m'quadesh
You got the victory and the glory is already Yours
And we can be sure Your character is morally pure, Lord
We can't help but adore You
Can't help but applaud You
Our soul saw You so now we can't help that it's all You

My God You're awesome, majestic

I’m not seeing a problem here. God Bless.

 

It's a cutural thing, but not a good one.

 

What are God's standards of propriety or morality in worship? In other words, what is the outward demeanor that God desires of Christian worship? A wicked, idolatrous kind commanded that all kinds of musick were to be used in the worship of his idol, Dan. 3:5. Would God command the same thing?

Order - A condition of logical or comprehensible arrangement among the separate elements of a group.

That's only part of it. It is also ensuring that rank and office in the assembly is observed and honored.

It seems that by definition this leaves things pretty open.

It's not open at all. Paul was correcting the excesses and abuses of the Corinthians. decently and in order is drawing a boundary.

IMO this is meant to be because we are all different and will obviously worship God in different ways and by different means.

Then what was wrong with the Corinthians ways and means?


Here is a great hymn – Great is Thy Faithfulness...[snip lyrics]

Now here is Cross Movements’ - Lord You Are ...[snip lyrics]

I’m not seeing a problem here. God Bless.

We're not talking about the words, we're talking about the manner or style in which something is done in Christian worship.

 

Well, if you can show me that God's presence is still between the cherubim on the mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant, then I'd say you have Scriptural grounds for dancing. You should note, however, that the priests never danced in the service of the Tabernacle.

But forget David. Christ is better than David, and He is our example. So I ask again, did He command dancing? Did his disciples dance?

The point is that there is a difference between the Old and New Testaments. There has been a change in the priesthood and a change in the law, Heb. 7:12. Christian worship will resemble the rites of OT worship about as much as a rose bloom resembles the seed from which it sprang.

This is a principle usually forgotten (or never learned at all) by those looking for Scriptural justification for charismatic practices, e.g., dancing, in church.

 

It matters because God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth, John 4:23-24.

True worship is not defined by the individual or the culture, it is defined by God, and true worship is known by 1) it's object (they that worhsip Him), and 2) it's manner (in spirit and in truth).

 

oops!

 

That should say, "A wicked, idolatrous KING..."

 

including Suthurin Gospel? Kewl!


I am continuously amazed at the folks that I speak to who have a real problem with "Christian Rock" and talk about it being the devils music with christian words, yet they love southern gospel, which clearly is rooted in country music, same smell if you ask me. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

There are tons of cultural issues involved in selecting appropriate music for personal listening and for corporate worship, its not a cut and dried (good Baptist Tobacco reference there) issue that can be argued directly from the scriptures (the style arguments that is) since the Bible doesn't specifically indicate style. We can use Biblical principles to help us in the effort, but that many times precludes us from using music that we have always used in Church, but can't defend doctrinally or from the standpoint of style. many times, folks are willing to throw out the new stuff that they determine is questionable, but won't go through "great hymns of the faith" and do the same. Its all about being consistent, balanced and reasonable about it, since good men can and do disagree on this issue.

 

HOW we worship God has always been important to God.

In the very first book of the Bible God gives us an example of just how important it is to God that we do things the right way. Some say that it doesn't matter HOW we worship or praise God, just that we do it, but then why did God reject Cain's sacrifice? Back then, a sacrifice was a form of worshipping God.
Cain gave God a sacrifice. We see later that God required the Israelites to give of their crops to Him. And Cain WAS a farmer, not a shepherd, so he was using the things he himself produced, and giving it out of the increase that GOD had provided.
So why didn't God accept Cain's sacrifice?
Because it was not the proper FORM of sacrifice. First of all, it did not include an animal. Second of all, it was not of Cain's FIRSTfruits. Cain had given God some leftovers.

So sacrificing was a FORM of worship, and God rejected Cain's because it wasn't done IN THE WAY that God had ordained.

Its the same with music. There are many different ways to use Godly music to worship and praise Him. No one here is saying that you can only use one style, or one tempo. However, we also don't need to, and should NOT, copy the world's styles in some sort of attempt to "praise God."

 

Dude,

I’ve been checking it out man, this is some far out of here in the cosmos, I got questions:

Are these dudes with it, for real, I mean like I can’t understand what’s happening, you know like I can’t even understand most of the flight of this trip they’re saying man?

What planet are these dudes from? They scream words I don’t even dig on, you know like what I’m saying man. These cats are like talking foreign, how cool is that? Wow man gnarly is not, bad I mean bad, good is bad but cool is bad if you know what I’m sayin? Man… I mean like what a trip.

This journey from off my planet did wrong or what, wow, the acid set on the flower did blossom and took to the spring, what’s happening in a happening place? The pyramid will bring this if it’s directional in the voyage but the ship is on retro passing the waves. You dudes are out there. Clue it back and real is cool, is this real or what? It ain’t cool to leave us in the park with the fuss while you guys party on out of the zone. You dudes must be trippin off some bad stock or something, clue me in, don’t make me straight… man! Get with it, be cool don’t leave us hanging, that ain’t cool. You know what I mean, if you don’t man get what I mean how cool is this? Don’t bring me down man I don’t think you guys are being cool about this. It’s real so be real!

http://www.897powerfm.com/playlist.html

What's with project86's trip?

 

Exactly, you're cool!