Does Calvanism REALLY Turn God Into A Puppet master us Into puppets?

Sorry JF, if I were a calvinist, I certainly could not see myself rejoicing that I had won the salvation lottery and the poor schmuck down the street didnt.

 

Yes, Calvinists come across as being heartless, just like their concept of God. As long as they believe themselves elect, it seems to matter little to them if others go to hell. In fact, they believe it glorifies God. Boy, Calvinism inspires such great love for your fellow man, what a great religion!

But if you read JFs last paragraph, he is not even sure if he is elect. Of course, if you believe Jesus only died for SOME men, then you could not be sure he died for you.

Hopefully he will see Jesus died for all men, then he can know Jesus certainly died for him and have real assurance.

 

Here is article 5 of the remonstrance, the one in question I think.

Article 5. That those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith, and have thereby become partakers of his life-giving Spirit, have thereby full power to strive against Satan, sin, the world, and their own flesh, and to win the victory; it being well understood that it is even through the assisting grace of the Holy Ghost; and that Jesus Christ assists them through his Spirit in all temptations, extends to them his hand, and if only they are ready for the conflict, and desire his help, and are not inactive, keeps them from falling, so that they, by no craft of power of Satan, can be misled nor plucked out of Christ's hands....But whether they are capable, through negligence, of forsaking again the first beginnings of their life in Christ, of again returning to this present evil world, or turning away from the holy doctrine which was delivered them, of losing a good conscience, of becoming devoid of grace, that must be more particularly determined out of the Holy Scriptures, before we ourselves can teach it with the full persuasion of our minds

 

The honest truth is that none of us KNOW these things, save for relying on some scripture which gives us solace with respect to our condition and destiny.

 

You say you know because you have trusted Jesus, but you believe faith is a work, therefore you are trusting in your own works.

And how do you KNOW you are elect, did God come down and tell you so?

Isn't it possible you could be self deceived like those who said, Lord, Lord, yet Jesus said he never knew them?

This is what happens when you do not believe man capable of real saving faith. You believe only God can give you this real faith, but you have no way of knowing this has really taken place in your life. The unregenerate in your view cannot even understand what true saving faith is, so how in the world can you possibly recognize it?

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

EWF...

You said....

Well..one of the MAJOR points of Calvinism, that you guys trumpet over and over again, is that the elect...WILL...COME...TO...CHRIST. No if ands or buts about it, they WILL come to Christ and be saved, becuse they are the "elect", so they MUST come.

Conversely, the non-elect will...NOT...COME...TO...CHRIST. No if ands or buts. They wont come to Christ because they are the non-elect, so they CANT come.

And this was all determined eons ago before any of us even existed.


Now, if thats not robotic activity, I'd like to know what is.

 

Classic. Show a Calvinist the weakness in his theology and suddenly he is an Arminian! You say you know because you called on Jesus, if I said that you and all your buddies here will claim I saved myself, yet that is what you are now saying!

And suddenly you say placing faith in Christ is not a work. You have turned into an Arminian!

But I don't believe you, in your next post you will say faith is a work, and calling on Jesus is saving yourself. You will say that again as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow.

A double-minded man is unstable in all his ways.

 

I think writers of the syfy Star Trek The Next Generation had this classic debate in mind with the creation of the Borg.....Resistance is Futile, you will be assimilated.

 

Winman...

Ha ha! :laugh:

I know what you mean, HOWEVER...

I gotta give some props to "Jesus Fan"

Some of the calvinists on here come across so arrogantly, so smug and content in their *chosen-ness*

But I have never got even the slightest bit of that vibe from Jesus Fan. Jesus fan is definetly a moderate, balanced calvinist.

I've got no issues with JF! :thumbs:

AiC

 

:thumbs::thumbs:

 

Show me even one verse in the scriptures that says you must be regenerated in order to have the ability to believe.

I can easily show you many that say you must believe to be regenerated.

Go ahead, show me, and I promise for each verse you show that says you have to be regenerated to believe, I will show you TWO that says you must believe to be regenerated.

 

Yes, because if you were a Calvinist, you would be confident that God is Sovereign & knows what He is doing. "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

 

I am not a Calvinist but I am confident God knows what He's doing. I'm just not confident that you know what He's doing. :laugh:

 

EWF,

I am not a calvinist.....and yet....I am still confident of these in which you seem to imply that I am not.