Does Chapter 6 In Hebrews refer To "Real" Christians?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Apr 18, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Asking about the part of being "Impossible to renew again to repentance those who have rejected after tasting/partaking?"

    Were they "truely" saved, or just 'religious" folks?
     
  2. Van

    Van
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    What does it mean to "bring someone to repentance?" To bring someone the gospel message and put before them the choice of repentence? And if they reject the gospel, how can they be bought to repentance again, unless they come to their senses, and stop rejecting the gospel?

    I can taste something without swallowing it. Understand it without accepting it. Understanding the work product of the Holy Spirit, the gospel of Christ, without accepting it or accepting it fully.

    If it rains on cultivated ground, the ground produces a useful crop, but if it rains on uncultivated ground, it produces thorns and weeds and a crop that is not useful. Unless a person is open to the gospel, a person who believes in the Father and is receptive to God's Word, the rain of the gospel will not produce a useful crop. Evangelism 101.

    Hebrews 6:4-6 (NASB) For in the case of those who have once been enlightened [understood the gospel message] and have tasted the heavenly gift [tasted, not swallowed, considered, not accepted] and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit [has shared in the work product of the Holy Spirit, the gospel of Christ] and have tasted the good word of God [have a contextual understanding of the gospel message as presented in God's Word] and have [tasted] the powers of the age to come [have met and observed born again believers who walk the talk and who will reign with Christ] and have fallen away [ from choosing to believe in Jesus] it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, [unless they come to their senses] since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God [they consider Him dead to them] and put Him to open shame [as a liar or lunatic].

    With this understanding of the text, then Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about potential Christians, not born again Christians.

    If we turn now to verse 9, we see the kind of folks where the rain fell on cultivated soil, that which produced useful crop. Real, born again Christians.

    May God Bless
     
    #2 Van, Apr 18, 2011
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  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    thanks!
    So you saying that these verses should NOT be used to try to support from Bible doctine that one can lose their salvation ?
     
  4. Van

    Van
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    Yes, this passage, nor any other verse or passage, contextually considered supports loss of salvation with salvation being defined as positional sanctification. All the so called loss of salvation passages, that actually address the topic, and this one does not, refer to loss of rewards, which is to say loss of the benefits of progressive sanctification, our good works after we are born again. But even with the lose of rewards, we still enter heaven has one escaping from a fire, bringing little or no rewards with us.

    I had thought once saved always saved was a Baptist distinctive, and so no Baptist would adhere to the Arminian view of loss of salvation. Are you saying there are people posting on the Baptist only forums that believe in loss of salvation?
     
    #4 Van, Apr 18, 2011
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  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Don't know IF anyone here holds to that belief, but it is a distinct possibility...
    From my undertanding, there are reformed type Baptists who post on BB, they would tend to hold to the "formal" creeds/confessions of reformed faith...
    More like "real" 5 point Calvinists
    definitly eternal security with them
    Would be here also those holding to more of a "4 point" TULIP, God elects to save His own also eternal security
    main difference between baptist groups 1 and 2 would be in defining extent of the atonment limited/unlimited, also group 2 tends to be the dispy viewpoint
    Group 3 would be the "free will/grace" baptists, who would hold to a more Arminion theology, so loss of salvation possible with them, more like a "conditional security, based on how we keep the faith... If we perserve to the end
     
    #5 JesusFan, Apr 18, 2011
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  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    The first time I heard the Hebrews 6 passage exegeted, it was boiled down to "If you could fall away, then you can't be saved again." In other words, you can't be saved, then lost, then saved again, because Christ would have to be crucified again for that to happen.

    Then, years later, I read a scholar's exegesis which suggested that "falling away" was to turn away from the principle of grace and return to keeping the law. Falling away is not "falling from grace," that is, losing salvation, but falling away from the truth that "by grace are ye saved."

    For one who is trying to be saved through the law, it's impossible for them to repent and trust Christ completely. This resembles what Paul fought against from the Judaizers, who wanted to add circumcision and keeping the law to grace.

    I think the second view is closer to what we're looking for.
     

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