Does faith in the gospel come from God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by AresMan, May 17, 2011.

  1. AresMan

    AresMan
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    Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


    Here we see a contrast between the saved and the lost--those in the flesh and those in the Spirit. Those in the flesh cannot please God.
    One can only be in the Spirit if the Spirit of God dwells in him. Now, if one who is in the flesh cannot please God, yet the Spirit must dwell in someone for him to be "in the Spirit," does it not follow that this all must happen by the direct, effectual intervention of God?

    Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that (1) cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently (2) seek him.

    We see that one must have faith to please God. However, those who are in the flesh cannot please God, and God must do something supernatural on their part for them to be in the Spirit.
    Now, this verse says that one must come to God and seek Him. Where does faith come from? Do other Scriptures explain this?

    Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


    (1)We see that no one comes to Christ unless given by the Father AND that all whom the Father gives DO come. Therefore, one must be effectually drawn to come.

    Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.


    (2)According to this passage, no one seeks after God. However, we know that there are those that have and do seek after God. These must have been given by the Father, because they have come to the Son. The giving of the Father overrides the default condition of "cannot come" and "none that seeketh."

    From whence does the faith come?

    Php 1:27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
    Php 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
    Php 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;


    If one believes on Christ, it has been given to them to believe. If not, the faith of the gospel itself is verily a token of their own perdition.

    Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


    The light is NOT just a mushy, gushy thing that makes everyone pleasant. The light is also condemnation. Of those who come, it is made manifest that their actions in the truth are the work of God on their behalf.

    It seems perfectly clear to me that
    1. God must work effectually on one's behalf for one to come to Him.
    2. God must give one faith for one to believe the gospel.
    3. One does not seek God without the Father giving him to the Son.
    4. All in all, one is totally dependent on God for every facet of Salvation.
    5. All credit possible for why one is saved vs. lost must be given to God alone.
     
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Interesting,
    You listed scriptures and then spoke about what they actually say.You did this throughout the post. Interesting.:thumbs:
     
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck
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    Excellent post AM.....and AMEN!
     
  4. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    I couldnt agree with you more brother. No wait for the harpies to circle.

    Seriously, thank you for your exposition...enjoyed it!
     
  5. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Hebrews 7:
    18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

    Romans 10:
    17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.

    John 3:16
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son...

    John 5
    25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    John 6:45
    It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

    John 6:63
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

    John 14:24
    Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    John 12:32
    And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

    Matthew 28:18
    Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

    2 Corinthians 5:20
    We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God.

    Mark 16
    15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

    Ephesians 1:13
    And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

    1 Timothy 2
    1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
     
    #5 psalms109:31, May 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2011
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Think that even we who are of the calvinist persuasion would say that in order for a person to become a Christian "saved" would have to exercise personal faith in Christ...

    We are born sinners, part of the Fall of Adam, we dead in our sin natures, spiritual dead, so God by his Holy spirit does "quicken" us to be able to hear and "understand" what the message of Gospel is...

    So we than are in the position to be able to respond, as faith does coming by/from hearing Word of God, especially Gospel of Christ..

    So at same time. part of same process..

    God quickens us, allowing us to be able to hear and understanding what is being said, we than can excercise personal faith and believe in Jesus...

    Don't think scriptures say that God does everything involved in salvation the sense that we are all "robots" "forced" to become saved, that you MUST place faith in him to become saved, make a conscious choice, but God provides the Cross, and God does indeed "work: to bring the elected out person to a place where he can and will place his faith in the Messiah!

    Heavenwill be populated by peoples who byt ehGrace of God in the Cross of Christ redeemed them, but ALL, unless under age of accountibility, will have excercised their personal faith in Christ!
     
    #6 JesusFan, May 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2011
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Faith is from Christ to the elect

    Faith is from the Elect Head to the Elect seed ! Remember Paul wrote in Rom 4:16

    Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

    acts 26:

    18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
    This is a astounding message from Jesus to paul, in that Jesus is saying that faith is that which is in him..

    Notice he says not " and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith in me, but by faith that is in me..

    That is into the sphere of him..Faith is from christ and of christ.

    This is why we have verses that phrase faith as the faith of christ..notice:

    rom 3:22

    22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:



    gal 2:

    16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

    gal 3:

    22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    The elect recieve faith to believe in him, because of His Faith and Faithfulness to the covenant engagements of the everlasting covenant..

    Notice heb 2:



    10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

    11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

    12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

    13And again, I will put my trust[Faith] in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Jesus is saying that the Children given Him [in election the seed] as He did, will put their Faith or Trust in God.

    Their [The seed] find their source of Faith from Christ.

    All those given to christ, entrusted to him, will eventually believe or trust in their salvation news..



    Look at eph 1:


    12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

    13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

    14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    What do we see here ? vs 12, that those who first trusted in christ, was to his glory..


    This refers back to heb 2:13

    13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
     
  8. percho

    percho
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    I think this is what I have said in all my post concerning faith. Christ is the author and perfecter of the faith. By him dying and by him being raised from the dead and by him receiving of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit he Jesus is the faith by which we shall be saved. The faith of Christ. He then sheds the promised Holy Spirit upon the elect and they then have Christ in them the hope of glory. Christ then becomes the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen.

    But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    Before and after faith came. Before and after the resurrection of Jesus.

    The washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit is what the Son and the Father did to bring salvation to the first Adam. In Ephesians it is called faith. By grace are ye saved through faith.


    Would like to thank AresMan and God for I believe his post clears up what I have been trying to say.
     
    #8 percho, May 18, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: May 18, 2011
  9. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Romans 4
    Abraham Justified by Faith
    1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[Gen. 15:6; also in verse 22]
    4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

    7 “Blessed are those
    whose transgressions are forgiven,
    whose sins are covered.
    8 Blessed is the one
    whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]

    We are saved by grace for this reason because the wages of our sin is death, not faith, not believe, but death. Our faith teaches us that Jesus paid the debt the debt that we can't pay, the faith given through the life and word of Jesus. Praise be to Jesus.

    Since all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God has credit to us righteousnes through trust in Jesus.
     
  10. AresMan

    AresMan
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    I totally agree and I did not intend to make a case for "robots."

    Although we are the ones that exercise the faith in the gospel, God gave it to us, and He did it in such a way as to guarantee our conversion.
    We are not robots, but we have to acknowledge that the determining factor in the reason we are believers instead of unbelievers is the effectual calling of God, and not an autonomous decision on our part.
     

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