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Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by saturneptune, Jul 15, 2013.
Does Genesis 1:1 support Calvinism?
If God is before all things and if God knew that the world he made would be this world in which people suffer and die and go to hell- then he HAD to will this very world to exist.
If he did not will for suffering and hell to exist, he could have built the world VERY differently.
Only Calvinism is consistent with the truth of Genesis 1:1
That has got to be the cornerstone of sovereignty. I picked the verse out at random to make a point, but good observation.
Thus if God HAD to create simply because He foreknew what would happen IF He created, what external force is so powerful that if MADE God do what God could not choose to do otherwise? You are missing another god somewhere and if this god is as equally evil and deterministic as God is good and deterministic, then we are all at a cosmic stalemate.
I request you stay out of the threads I originate.
Who said he had to do it because he forknew what would happen?
Where did that nonsense come from?
The answer was so juvenile it was not worthy of comment. Obviously the wording was to inflame. There is only one God. He is sovereign. (duh) We do not grasp the concept of eternity past, so God is quite capable of deciding His own plans without the help of another god, because there is not one.
"Only Calvinism is consistent with the truth of Genesis 1:1"
you said it
Get out and stay out.
He had to HAVE willed this world to exist. I am not saying God HAD to will it. I am saying he MUST have willed it.
Does that clarify it for you?
God wanted THIS world in which I type this post this very moment to exist.
How do I know?
Because of two things.
1. He knew IF he made this world EXACTLY what this world would be like.
2. He did not have to make the world the way he made it if he did NOT want this world to be the way it is.
He must have wanted this very world to exist or this very world would NOT exist because he knew before he made it exactly what kind of world it would be.
No. God is Unchangingly Omnibenevolent and that is all that came out of Him in creation.
To come was the miraculous creation of creatures with human freedoms.
In their freedom they chose to disobey God.
Evil came into the world by which the creature alone is responsible for.
The fact that He created creatures with human freedom remains.
God did not go back and recreate them without this freedom.
Omnibenevolent God already knew these creatures would fall so He had Lovingly prepared the Way of Life for them.
All of them, because He is Omnibenevolent, He did not have a lapse in His Nature that he had created some to be evil, He had a plan to reveal His Love and Goodness throughout all the world which He had created.
The promise continues to the creatures He brought into the world, all of them...because of His unchanging Nature.
Omnibenevolent- do you take that to mean that God is good to Satan?
Is God good to those who are burning in hell right now. They are people, too.
Is God good to them?
Did he already know that Lucifer would fall with 1/3 of the angels of heaven before they fell. Did "omnibenevolent" God have a way of life for them?
Sorry, your determination doesn't override my free will!
Ouch, that's a good one!! :laugh:
Not to derail this thread, but isn't Lucifer actually King Nebchudnezzar? I have a Nave's Topical body that states just that.
All of God's way are judgment, that is Good, He is Just, that is Good.
God is Omniscient. God is Good. God is Just.
Nothing about this changes. Maybe you think He isn't fair? LOL
When you are looking at all of scripture through the lens of Calvinism then yes it is possible to see Calvinism in all of scripture.
Of course it does. It is a presuppositional statement:
here from wiki-
From Answers in Genesis-
So...In Beginning God........is about God's eternal purpose be revealed to the church...
9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Anyone who does not see this...does not view the scripture correctly at all.
The Holy Spirit had the Apostles relate the events of God in beginning, God in creation linking everything into the events of the cross;
24 And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
25 Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said, Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
29 And now, Lord, behold their threatenings: and grant unto thy servants, that with all boldness they may speak thy word,
Any who oppose this teaching oppose themself, as God's plan is unfolding right on time.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
The creation was completely God's work by God's power.....so is the new creation......as written here.
Those who speak against Calvinism...like this:
speak directly against this truth.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
I don't know about Calvinism per say but the lamb was on schedule to shed his precious blood.
And even at that time because of; Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Heb 2:14
Maybe not 1:1 but definitely 1:2.