Does God care...

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by AITB, Jun 1, 2002.

  1. AITB

    AITB
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    whether people worship Him and if so, why does He care?

    I can't see why I'd even WANT to be worshipped, or rather, yeah, I can, but it seems sinful in me to want it :D

    Therefore, why is it such a big deal to God? Why isn't God just happy if people are happy?

    I'm happy when my friends are happy...

    I can't imagine being angry at people who wouldn't worship me because everything they'd heard about me led them to believe I was cruel, vindictive, arbitrary...

    I can't imagine punishing people who in good conscience were unable to worship me for those reasons.

    That's now it seems to me, that many non-believers are. They don't like the God they see portrayed in the Bible. So either they conclude He doesn't exist or even if He did they wouldn't worship Him.

    I can't help respecting them for refusing to worship what to them seems more like Satan than God. As it were.

    So, what do you think? What is the big deal about worship, to God?

    Comments, please...

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Gina B

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    Is that how you feel or was it hypothetical?
    Gina
     
  3. AITB

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    Gina,

    I don't understand your question :confused:

    Is what how I feel? Could you be more specific please?

    AITB [​IMG]
     
  4. Me2

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    Hello AITB,

    Sorry But Thats The Way My God Is.....Either You Play His Way Or Your Out !

    Im Thinking That The Problem With Billions Of People, is That They Cant Accept A God Thats Perfect...That Is One That Is Perfectly Just, as well as Perfectly Merciful.

    If Everybody Is Given Free Will. Then Somebody Will Eventually Disagree That Gods Not Right...Then What?

    Worship God..You Get The Mercy..Gods Goodness

    Disagree With God And You Get Gods Justice..Of Course..In Measures Of Infinity..Perfectly

    Theres The Rub..Infinite Mercy and Infinite Justice Cant Be Combined With The Very Existence Of Sin. Both Attributes WILL Run Parallel, In Respect With Each Other, Forever.
    Never To Be Recombined Into One Perfect God

    Infinite Justice Demandes Infinite Punishment or Infinite Mercy Demands An End To Infinite Punishment.
    Sounds Like An Imperfection.. So Self Becomes An Option. Just As Imperfect
     
  5. DHK

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    Acts 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
    25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
    --Notice in verse 25 that God has need of nothing. He does not need our worship. It is not a question of God needing or even wanting our worship at all, but rather our needing to worship God. God is not an egomaniac sitting up in Heaven wanting all to worship Him; far from it. He created you for one purpose: because he loves you. He wants to bestow upon you the riches of His grace. He would like to make you his heir and an joint heir with Christ.

    Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    --He would like to give you freely all things. God is a generous God, merciful, gracious, kind, understanding, caring. "Casting all your care on Him for cares for you." He created you to be an object of His love. There is no one that He loves any more in this world than you. He demonstrated that love by sending His own Son to die for our sins.

    Rom.5:8 "But God commendeth (demonstrated) his love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."
    I have sinned. You have sinned. He took the penalty of our sin upon himself, and paid the price with His precious blood, that God's justice might be satisfied. John 15:13 says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." This is what Jesus did for us. But He didn't have to. He wasn't obligated to. He created us because He loved us. He came to this earth as a man and died for our sins because He loved us. He created us with a will to choose between good and will
    because He did not want robots worshipping Him, but people out of their own freewill to worship Him, that is people that would worship Him out of love--just as He created them out of love. The sin of man has marred it all. One cannot blame God for man's sin and rebellion that has brought so much heartache and sorrow to this world.

    Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
    God doesn't need your worship. He is your Creator. You need to submit to Him in thanksgiving for all that He has done for you, and worship Him. It is for your benefit, not His.
    DHK
     
  6. AITB

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    Originally posted by DHK:
    --Notice in verse 25 that God has need of nothing. He does not need our worship.


    I asked if He cared...not whether He needed it.

    It is not a question of God needing or even wanting our worship at all

    He doesn't even want it? :eek:

    , but rather our needing to worship God. God is not an egomaniac sitting up in Heaven wanting all to worship Him;

    Yeah but - then why do people who don't worship Him go to hell then? If He's not?

    far from it. He created you for one purpose: because he loves you. He wants to bestow upon you the riches of His grace. He would like to make you his heir and an joint heir with Christ.

    ...and if you don't, eternal torment...

    It's rather conditional, isn't it?

    If I offer someone a gift it's up to them whether to take it. It really is. If they said 'no' I wouldn't inflict pain on them for saying 'no'.

    God is a generous God, merciful, gracious, kind, understanding, caring. "Casting all your care on Him for cares for you." He created you to be an object of His love. There is no one that He loves any more in this world than you. He demonstrated that love by sending His own Son to die for our sins.

    Yeah, yeah, generous, kind and most people are going to hell... :confused:

    How is that generous and kind???

    One cannot blame God for man's sin and rebellion that has brought so much heartache and sorrow to this world.

    He created hell though...He creates everyone who is going there...why not just create people who will go to heaven?

    God doesn't need your worship. He is your Creator. You need to submit to Him in thanksgiving for all that He has done for you, and worship Him. It is for your benefit, not His.

    Why is it to my benefit, though? Why do I need it? Many many people don't seem to think they need it... :confused:

    If you know why then tell me...

    I still have big-time trouble with hell, in case you hadn't noticed... [​IMG]

    AITB
     
  7. Me2

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    Hello DHK,
    What Do You Mean I Cant Blame God? Im Cursed At Birth.!
    If This Isnt A Fixed Game. What Is?

    Im Born, I Dont Wanna Play and I Get Damned!
    Is That God Just Wanting To Love Me?

    What Is Our Purpose For Existence If Not To Be An Attribute Of God., An Extension., An Expression of The Creator....
    For What Final Purpose can We Be.?

    If Were Not Going To Be Annihilated. There Is Just Two Choices. Right?

    So Can We Deduce That We Are Created To Be Tormented. We Got At Least a 50/50 Chance

    OK So Far I Got God Not Needing Our Worship
    We Got A 50/50 Chance Of Picking A Wrong Destiny (Eternally)
    God Never Being Perfect... Because The Attributes of Mercy and justice never Complementing each other Perfectly. Torment of Creation Forever.. no Infinite Mercy..

    So Were Concluding maybe 5% creation being "Saved" and 95%
    Enduring torment infinitely? Through God Expressing Himself...And Hes Not Egotistical?
     
  8. Paul of Eugene

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    Very good question, AITB! In my opinion, its not that God wants or needs lots of praises from us because otherwise He feels neglected; rather, it is because He loves us so much He wants us to be aware of the reality of Who He is and What He has done for us. The praise and adoration follow naturally from simply being aware of these things.

    It also follows from the nature of our instincts. We have an instinct for accepting authority and following the leader. This instinct has tragically led many to blindly follow leaders such as Hitler and Stalin and thereby caused great evil. The proper application of this instinct is to apply it towards God. No mortal deserves the kind of instinctive, total loyalty we so often see misused and misplaced. In our case, for many of us, that instinct invokes a natural attitude of reverence and worship that is fittingly applied to God alone.

    Anyway, that's my own thinking on this issue.
     
  9. Me2

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    Hello Paul.

    Now Really Do You Think That God Would Pour Out So
    Much Attention and Love To You, While He Ignores 95% of Mankind.

    Would'nt God Be Perfect If Sin Didnt Exist. Therefore Infinite Justice and Infinite Mercy
    Could Perfectly Co-exist and Complement Each other?

    Oops...Punishment Would Have To End Would'nt It Forever?

    What Do You Think?
     
  10. donnA

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    AITB,
    God does not have the same human emotions we have. He has perfect unflawed emotions.
    We are to worship God becaue HE is God, and we are not, becasue as the bible says HE loved us first, and because of that love gave His Son for us. God deserves our worship. Worshipping God bringsour lives into focus with Him, worshipping in the presence of God is a wonderful thing. It reminds us who we are in relation to Him,we can see our sin, and our need for forgiveness.
     
  11. ken1burton

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    God is our Father.

    God is a responsible parent. When God first came into definate contact with man. (maybe waited till we were able to start being decent to each other.) It was as if the Father walked into the house and all the Children were fighting and killing each other.

    He gave rules, and punishment out for not following those STONE COLD RULES. Engraved on stone. But that was between those of the nation of Israel. The "Thou shalt not kill." did not apply to those already living in the land God was about to give them.

    Through Israel God showed all those gathered into Egypt that He is, and how He is. How He protects those that love Him.

    God again shows this in Babylon. Many Miracles happened in 70 years. Many that showed that God is, and He desires us to serve Him.

    Worship means to serve God more then to praise Him. And in serving God, God brings us to the point where we learn to love one another, to care for one another.

    Jesus came much under Jewish law. Only sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, Give not that which is Holy unto Dogs. Enter not into a town of the Samaritans. If you look on a woman with lust, you have already committed Adultery, Etc.

    Jesus took the law, and moved it into our hearts. The Woman caught in Adultery was to be stoned. (The man also, where every he was) And that was for everyone there to stone her, to get the evil out of Israel. Jesus showed all have sinned, "Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone."

    God's law is set aside as all have fallen short. A new law of compassion, Mercy and forgiveness comes in.

    The "Give not that which is Holy unto Dogs" is disregarded as Jesus sees even not Jews love God. Jesus knows a Jew is not to speak to a Samaritan woman. But Jesus does and uses the opportunity to show her things of God.

    When the Disciples return He tells them "Those that reap shall receive wages." and the woman at the well is in town after a short time with Jesus reaping a harvest.

    The object of Worship or serving God is to make this world God placed us in, a beautiful place. To have fellowship with God.

    We all have earthly parents. Some may have had good relationships with their dads, those that did not have seen others having a good Dad-Child relationship. Is it not better to have this, then to be denied it?

    Daniel 9:24 exists. Daniel 9:24 is a Prophecy. Luke 18:31 says ALL prophecies are fulfilled when Jesus goes up to Calvary.

    (LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

    (DANIEL 9:24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (KJV)

    Where do you think Jesus would make a end of sin, if it is not Calvary? Does another cross await Jesus? Was not one sufficient?

    We have a very loving God. and He knows humans, and He knows we all fall short. What we see of God, He has given to us to see. Even or Faith is not of ourselves.

    Those that are forgiven more will loveth more. It is in seeing God is a loving God that makes people want to be near Him. Eternally near Him.

    Hell ended. Read the verses. The Pit where in is not water is not a hard similitude to vision.

    (ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)

    Jesus went into hell because Jesus is the Street by which they left. "Together with My dead body" as Isaish 30:26 shows.

    (ISAIAH 51:23) But I will put it into the hand of them that afflict thee; which have said to thy soul, Bow down, that we may go over: and thou hast laid thy body as the ground, and as the street, to them that went over. (KJV)

    (DANIEL 9:25) Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. (KJV)

    The Street is BUILT AGAIN. Jesus gets those alive, now He is the Street to those dead. And finally as the third picture, He is a Street to God Himself.

    Daniel's Vision of the Evening and Morning (one day) is for MANY DAYS. Even sufficient for 70 weeks, or 1,000 years. What ever God has need of it being seen as. A Space, a day taken out of time.

    (DANIEL 9:26) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (KJV)

    Jesus is DEAD or Desolate the day of the cross, Jesus the Messiah is CUT OFF, From the land of the Living that is. Jesus is the City, Jesus is the Sanctuary. The people are as waters. Angry as waves roaring.

    (DANIEL 9:27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (KJV)

    The day of the cross is as a week in Isaiah 30:26. Jesus ends the Daily Sacrifice as Jesus offers Himself. No more daily sin offering, no more daily burnt offerings etc. The Daily Sacrifices and oblation ends at Golgotha.

    Jesus takes FUTURE sin, past and present sin then ended "with His stripes we are healed.". Jesus as Dead is the Desolate. The Consummation is all mankind consumed into the Body of Christ in Righteousness. THAT IS OUR LOVING GOD.

    (ISAIAH 10:22) For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. (KJV)

    The REMNANT of them is the Body of Christ with mankind in it. Created in His Image or in Christ the day of the cross. EVEN UNTO THE CONSUMMATION, which is seen here, God Decreed all mankind consumed in Righteousness.

    BEHOLD OUR LOVING GOD:

    (ISAIAH 45:8) Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the Lord have created it. (KJV)

    (ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

    All the Dead rose with Christ, hell was emptied out, and ceased to exist on the third day.

    (JOB 8:22) They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought. (KJV)

    (PSALMS 37:10) For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be. (KJV)

    Isaiah chapter 14 is looking at Hell, Hell seen as ceasing to exist, in similitude in that chapter.

    (ISAIAH 14:31) Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times. (KJV)

    NONE is a name for Jesus, None showeth, None declareth, When I called, None did answer. There is None beside Me.

    Jesus was ALONE on the Cross, and now with all mankind in ONE body, He is Alone with us all.

    ken1burton
     
  12. Me2

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    Hello Ken,

    Nice To Hear From You. Thats What I Want To Hear...Your a Really Good Writer When your Not Quoting The Bible with Simitudes. I Would Like To Hear Some Of Your Personal Thoughts. Whether In Doctrine or idea on specific Trains of thought.

    I Have A Few Questions I Would Like To Ask You.

    I Stated Earlier That Infinite Mercy and Infinite Justice Can Not Go Hand In Hand with Respects to a Perfect God, With The Inclusion Of Sin.

    Can You Give Me Any Insight To Why ?

    (And Seeing That You Supplied The Answer Of Jesus Paying All Costs For The Remedy)

    How Will God Become All In All As The Final Goal Of The Creation of Creation ?
    Ill Give You A Hint...Reconciliation To Self

    Anyone With Comments?
     
  13. Clint Kritzer

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    Yes, Me2. I have a comment. I don't believe that you are a legitimate Baptist. Do you call yourself such because of your heritage or a family relation? Your theology is very naive and lacking and you are flaming the Christian members of this board.

    One can not be a Baptist without being Christian. So I will bluntly ask you, are you a born again Christian?

    Clint Kritzer
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  14. Me2

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    Hello Clint,
    Flame...Are You Joking?..I Ask Questions That All Christians Need To Ask Themselves.
    Yes To Provoke To Arriving At A Concrete Answer. right Or Wrong..
    Every Fundamental Creed Of the Southern Baptist Faith I Follow. I Differ When People Start To Create A Future State Of Belief That Hasnt Occured Yet? Such As Eschatology.
    By The Way. How Many Different Interpretations Are There. Is Yours The Only Right Interpretation.....
    Or Might I Ask Another Question....
    Col 1:20 God Says Reconcile All Things... Just What Does That Mean... What Part Of All Doesnt Make Sense To You. Because I Look At Things Origanally Different Than You Do. Does Not Mean Im Not Headed For The Same Goal As Yourself.
    If You Can understand All In That Phrase. Then Can You Say Im Flaming Something.
    What Can One Learn If They Apply Themselves For 25 Years?
    Could It Possibly Surpass What Orthodox Religion Can Teach? Possibly?
    When An Individual Stops Thinking In A Herd Mentality is When God Has An Individual Relationship With That Person. I Like Thinking Like An Individual.. Do You?

    [ June 02, 2002, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]
     
  15. ken1burton

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    Me2

    Joshua gave the hint when he told the Children of Israel: "You can not serve a Holy God."

    We can only accept the Mercy of a Holy God, and share that knowledge with others. God showed us in Scripture how He atoined for man's iniquity by placing it upon one man.

    But that one man, even though He took all iniquity upon Himself, He did it out of love for others. God accepted Jesus out of love taking our sins upon Himself. And even with the sins of the World upon Jesus. God's mercy was sufficient to cover every transgression ever committed, being committed, or ever will be committed, which was upon Christ.

    New Testament reads "Love covers a multitude of sin." That is ERROR, Old Testament shows "Love covers ALL SIN." That is truth, and the day of the cross that Truth was established at a place called Golgotha.

    God loves mankind enough to give man hundreds of reasons not to believe. God justifies the unbeliever as well.

    (ROMANS 4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (KJV)

    "Him that Justifieth the ungodly."

    Remember that the difference between a believer and a non-believer is God's gift to the believer of sight. "For no man cometh unto the SON, Except the Father send him."

    Jesus in Job 33:26, rendered to man His righteousness, So we are all worthy of obtaining that world. God and Jesus now dwells with mankind. They have made their abode with man. Sin had to be taken out. Now it is Immanuel, God with us.

    We are in our glorified bodies, Glorified by the presence of God and Jesus.

    We still have acts of sin, But what exists is what would have separated us from God had Jesus not taken away the sin of the World.

    (JOHN 1:29) The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. (KJV)

    John the Baptist is also a PROPHET, and all things written by the prophets, and even spoken, Had to be fulfilled at Calvary.

    ken1burton
     
  16. Clint Kritzer

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    You didn't answer my question, Me2.
     
  17. DHK

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    You are right Clint. Attendance or even membership at a Baptist church does not make one a Baptist. Me2 stated in another post: "I am a universalist," meaning that all will eventually go to Heaven. I don't know of any Baptist that believes that. It would be a denial of the Word of God.
    DHK
     
  18. Me2

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    Hello ALL,
    If You Cant Tell By My Writings. Ill Spell It Out Slowly...I Believe In One God. The Lord Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior.. Ive Previously Stated That My Eschatolgical Beliefs Incorporate The Universal Salvation Of All Gods Creation. All Mankind, All Creation
    I Am A Baptised "Southern Baptist". All Fundamental Creeds Excluding Eschatalogical Beliefs,I Agree With 100%. My Eschatological Beliefs Are Not Uncommon. The Majority Of Baptists Have The Pre-Tribulation "Theory" As Part Of Their Creed Which Is Something I Question.. All Christians Should Question Confusing Doctrine or Theories And Creeds.
    This Is Something I Bring To This Forum. A Different Look At The Beliefs That Are Questionable.
    I Keep An Open Mind To Others Opinions, If I Have Not Conclusively Believed Without A Shadow Of Doubt The Interpretation And Opinions Of Others. There Is Further Exploration Necessary. All Readers Are Invited To Question And Disagree With What I Write. And Believe Me, Explaning These Things Take Great Effort. But It Is Helping Me To Word My Beliefs To Myself Also. I Actually Appreciate The Resistance.
    But For Me As A Man And Child Of God. I Put My Life Into The Things That I Belive. I Expect No Less From Any Other Person.
    We Are All Believers Working Out Our Salvation and I Respect Your Concern About The Differences Of My Beliefs and understanding. I Will Try To Explain with as much detail about them. I Just Ask You To Keep An Open Mind.
    I Hear Of The Indifferences. Ive Been There. People Change And Their Beliefs Enlarge And Change. My fundamental Have Not. My Eschatalogical Have.
     
  19. Lone Wolf

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    Hello ALL,
    If You Cant Tell By My Writings. Ill Spell It Out Slowly...I Believe In One God. The Lord Jesus Christ Is My Lord And Savior.. Ive Previously Stated That My Eschatolgical Beliefs Incorporate The Universal Salvation Of All Gods Creation. All Mankind, All Creation
    &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    Ummm...No. God has clearly stated in his word that unless you repent and believe on Jesus Christ, you will not go to heaven. The Bible is very clear on this topic.
     
  20. Me2

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    Hello Lone Wolf,
    Are You Saying that Ive Been Going To Church For 25 Years Believing And Singing And Rejoicing And Learning And Growing. and I Made A Silly Mistake Of Not Repenting!

    Welcome Aboard The Wagon Of Unforgiveness...YeeHaa

    So You Guys Are So Closed Minded That Your Not Willing To Hear Of Any Other Christian Perspective. Afraid That Ill Convince You Of Things Which Your Not Aware Of?
    Is Your Cup Half Full?..Are We Full Grown Instead Of A Little Child
    Well Im Tired Of The Whinning...Cant We Move Forward.....
    Does Anyone Have Any Comments On God Plans Of Reconciliation
    Preferably Col 1:13-23

    How About It Lone Wolf? Anyone?

    [ June 02, 2002, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: Me2 ]
     

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