Does God care...

Hi ME2 . . .

If you knew me, you would know there's nothing special about me compared to the rest of mankind. I think God loves everybody!

Well, God is perfect, and just because we are sinful doesn't make Him imperfect. And yes, infinite Justice and Infinite Mercey do coexist in Him and complement each other.

Well, that's not what he said about it. Some people He decides can be entrusted with the responsibility of eternal life and every increasing blessings and usefulness. Those we call the saved. Others He deems to be unworthy and in need, apparantly, of being quarantined from the rest of His universe.

 

Repentance has a problem connected with it. It is not seen by God.

(HOSEA 13:14) I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (KJV)

I as sure that Calvary is where God ransomed us from the power of the grave. I am sure that Calvary is where God redeemed us from death. And seeing Daniel 9:24 shows He makes a end of sin and brings in everlasting righteousness. Repentance is Hid from God's eyes.

For your repentance is telling God you do not believe Jesus took your sins, That He died for your sins, and that you are redeemed by grace. Repentance is really a lack of FAITH.

Did Jesus take your sins or not? Do you need to renew your salvation at every slip? How many times a day would Repentance be needed? Remember every thought is the same as a deed. The Smallest unkindness is evil. The smallest indifference. The slightest anger.

Is Trusting God wrong? Or can not God be trusted to have sufficient grace for us? Does His mercy and grace depend on our living Holy lives? Totally without any daily blemish?

Jesus said "It is finished", Not "it is up to you."

ken1burton

 

Hello Ken,
Great Statement!...
I Understand That If...God Tells Me Everythings OK..and If I Come Back To Him And Ask Him" Is Everything OK" That That Is Disbelief on My Part.......That I Dont Believe What He Originally Told Me
If I Believe God Is Sufficient To Fulfill My Needs..Thats Enough? No BooHooing over Something I Did Or I Didnt. Maybe Even An Unconscious Mistake. No Rules, No Laws..
A Simple Recognition Of What God Tells Me...No Conscious Thought of Error But A Spiritual Recognition Of Peace and Contintment. So If Im Not Feeling Peace and Contintment, Then Possibly Somethings Wrong within Me...Sound Real Close to Reality Living Within The Operation Of The Spirit...Once Saved Always Saved..Just Because God Said It..and All I Have To Do Is Take God On His Word...

Paul, You Said Some Interesting Thoughts...Quarantined..How Long And To Whom Has God Quarantined the people on Plant Earth..From Adam To Noah, We Only Hear Of A Few Families
Being Listed as God Interacting With..Only 8 Saved From Millions,Billions who died Prematurily.
Were Millions or even Billions Quarantined? Held Back From The Truths, or Existence or Plans of God. Following The JEWISH History Thru Time with The Bible. Other Civilizations,Peoples..Perhaps Millions,Billions Possibly in "Quarantine" I Mean The Message Of The Bible Is Extensive. Built Upon Ones Persons Life Upon Another until We Reach Families And Even Larger Groups Of Educated, Believing Peoples. Heck, The People God Chooses As His As Brought Into Captivity Multiple Times Because Of Disbelief. Their Fault Or The Hand Of God Veiling Truth From Them?. Can You Just Hear These People Thru Time..God Dont Love Us..God Dont Care For Us...Or Is This A Simple Case of Cause And Effect Of Disbelief.?..Were Gonna Get It Now For Disbelieving..Or Even Your Going To Hell!.
Jesus Arriving 4000 Years After The Start Of This Plan..There Is A Curse On Gods Chosen People.! The Covering Is Present. Few Believes Jesus Message. (Their Not Supposed To)
The Question Is: Is This Veil or Covering Still Present Today? Is God Selective In His Choosing To Draw Peoples To The Message Of Christ FINISHED Work.
Are We Saying At The Present Time God Chooses Who Will Be Saved And Who Will Not?
Are We Saying That Withiin The Churches Today That The Hand Of God Regenerates Some And Not Others?
Im Saying These Thing With The Idea of Gods Reconciliation Plan And His Use Of Choosing A Specific Order Of Who Will Be Saved And When. With The Eventual Goal Of All Being Reconciled Christ, His Body, And His Creation.

Have Any thoughts?

 

Ken, your ideas about repentance are not really scriptural. The verse In Hosea that you quoted is rendered in the New King James this way:

"O death I will be your plague! O grave I will be your destruction! Pity is hidden from My eyes."

In this verse, God is speaking about His unflinching attitude toward His destruction of the power of death and the grave, not an unwillingness on His part to accept our repentance.

Ken, you said:

Do you know what the word "repentance" means? Repentance is simply recognizing that one's behaviour needs to change and determining so to do. It is not denying Christ's salvationary work; it is acknowledging that my behaviour does not reflect the effect of that salvationary work upon my life. The result of genuine repentance Paul describes in 2 Corinthians 7:10 & 11:

"For godly sorrow works repentance....you sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge!"

AITB, you said:

While we are made in God's image, it does not follow that God is more or less like us. God is infinitely beyond you and I in every respect (except our sinfulness, of course). Trying to understand God on a basis of how you or I might act or feel is to ignore the vast difference between the creature and the Creator.

Concerning God's incomprehensibility A.W Tozer writes,

"When we try to imagine what God is like we must of necessity use that-which-is-not-God as the raw material for our minds to work on; hence whatever we visualize God to be, He is not, for we have constructed our image out of that which He has made and what he has made is not God."

It is this very infinitude and incomprehensibility which characterizes God that makes Him worthy of our worship. He deserves our worship and so we give Him what He is due.

"You are worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honor, and power: for you have created all things, and for your pleasure they are and were created." (Rev. 4:11)

Happiness is a fleeting thing and not always produced by that which is beneficial to us. Happiness is shallow and the pursuit of it often provokes people to self-serving behaviour. For these reasons God cannot just be "happy when we are happy". He has nobler and deeper purposes in our creation than the mere provision of our happiness.

God bless.

 

aiki.

I am not talking about God not accepting our repentance, I am saying sin ended at Calvary, and there is no need for God to Accept our repentance for Jesus took upon Himself all iniquity.

For by Grace are we saved, Through FAITH, and that not of ourselves, It is a GIFT GIFT GIFT of God.

(ROMANS 11:29) For the gifts and calling of God are Without Repentance . (KJV)

Not without PITY. Remember the writers of the New King James version obtained a COPYRIGHT. And maybe getting the Copyright meant far more then the accuracy of the translation.

You can not Copyright a 1611 King James Version Bible. Not the Wording, so the Wording has to change if you wish to own the new version.

Paraphrase Bibles are WORTHLESS. Trash them. God speaks in Secret, and unless the real secret is seen, the rephrasing is usually WRONG.

ken1burton

 

Gina: You sound like you're quite desperate to get people goin'. You're SBC, after 25 years you know the arguments, and have denied them. So between your denial and your obvious glee at the thoughts of goading those who do believe, I think I won't indulge you. Buh-bye.

 

Ken:

Sin ended at Calvary? I am not sure what you mean. Paul makes it clear that he struggled with sin as a born-again person (see Ro. 7:14-24).

I really don't think you understand what repentance is, Ken. Why would God not accept our choice to turn from sin, which is what repentance is? The KJV also sometimes uses the word "repentance" to signify an attitude of unswerving resolve concerning a decision one has made. "God's gifts and calling are without repentance" is a case in point. Romans 11:29, I think, speaks of God's set mind concerning what He has done in providing gifts and calling to the Gentiles and Jews.

Your remarks about the NKJV rendering of the word "repentance" as "pity" are unclear. Are you suggesting that this is a mistaken translation of this word? If so, it'll take more than your say so to establish that this is true. Give me some proof that this is a faulty translation of this word.

Have a godly day!

[ June 05, 2002, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: aiki ]

 

Hello All,

2 Cor 4:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
2 Cor 4:18 And All things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Cor 4:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Eph 3:9 And to make All men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God , who created All things by Jesus Christ

Col 1:8 Who also declared unto us your love in the spirit.
Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in All wisdom and spiritual understanding.
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto All pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God.
Col 1:11 Strengthened with All might, according to his glorious power, unto All patience and long-suffering with joyfulness.
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light.
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us Into the kingdom of his dear son :
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were All things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: All things were created by him and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before All things, and by him All things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the first-born from the dead: that In All things he might have the pre-eminence.
Col 1:19 For It pleased the father that in him should All fullness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile All things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things In earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies In your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable In his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue In the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

God Created All Things In Heaven
All Things In Earth
All Visible Things in Heaven
All Visible Things in Earth
All Invisible Things In Heaven
All Invisible Things In Earth
All Thrones In Heaven
All Thrones On Earth
All Dominions In Heaven
All Dominions On Earth
All Principalities In Heaven
All Principalities On Earth
All Powers In Heaven
All Powers On Earth

1 Cor 15:27 For he hath Put All things under his feet. But when he saith All things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1 Cor 15:28 And when All things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put All things under him, that God be All in All.

The Plan Of Reconciliation is Given To The Saints That God Chooses Within The Church throughout the ages. They Have A Specific Function Now As In The Future.
In Revelation We Find Certain "Overcomers" That Are noticed in the Church system.
In Col 1:23 The Statement If Ye Continue in The Faith.. This Is Planned By God Through Certain Individuals. Desire To Understand God Is Vital. We Call This Process Regeneration Of The Mind. Someday That Veil Will Be Lifted. We Will See Face To Face. Clearly Through The Mirror. The Veil Will Be Lifted From Mankind..the Mystery Of Iniquity.. will Be Over.. Every Man Will Know The Lord..
The Overcomers Are To Be The Teacher To Mankind, The Example Of Who God Is To Mankind, To Creation….In Heaven And on Earth…Throughout Time
The Visible Body Of Christ To Creation Throughout Eternity…Everyone Will Bow There Knee and Confess "Jesus Is Lord". This Will Be Voluntary. Not Manditory
All Mankind Will Be Saved All Creation Will Be Saved

So If You Cant Forgive Your Enemies, How Can You Be A Participant In Reconciling All Mankind To God? If You Cant Understand The Love Of God Through Christ For The World…
Gods Work Is To Draw Men To Christ.. Mans Work Is To Be A Part Of Reconciliation and Regeneration. Witnessing Who You Are, and Announcing Gods Desires and Plans For His Creation. Until The Veil Is Lifted
Theres the Choice For Each Individual..Will They Be A Participant or Spectator To This Activity of Reconciliation…God Says If You Continue In The Faith
Regeneration is A Process Above and Beyond Being Saved by Gods Act of Propitiation.

Does God Care? I Say If Not Now, Wait.

 

aiki.

Luke 18:31 shows all the prophecies spoken of what Jesus would do had to be fulfilled when Jesus went up to Jerusalem to offer Himself as a living Sacrifice.

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

Daniel is a Prophet. Daniel 9:24's making a end of sin and bringing in everlasting righteousness is FULFILLED at Calvary.

(DANIEL 9:24) Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. (KJV)

Sin ended by Jesus taking all iniquity upon Himself. (Isaiah 53:6) Jesus brings in everlasting righteousness by rendering to man His righteousness in Job 33:26.

So by Grace are we saved, through Faith, and that not of ourselves, it is a Gift of God.

Jesus saved us by giving us His righteousness which included His Faith, His works, His baptism of repentance which He did not need, He was preparing what we would need.

Daniel 9:24 has a SEAL SEAL SEAL. A SEAL the Disciples and Paul never got past to see sin ended as accountable unto man. So they being blinded by the seal spoke ERROR after ERROR after ERROR.

(ISAIAH 29:10) For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. (KJV)
(ISAIAH 29:11) And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: (KJV)

Here is the REST, Here is the SLEEP from seeing:

(MATTHEW 26:45) Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners. (KJV)
(MATTHEW 26:46) Rise, let us be going: behold, he is at hand that doth betray me. (KJV)

The "RISE let Us be going", followed "Sleep on."

So with sin ended, and everlasting righteousness upon mankind, Repentance is hid from God's eyes, as it was made worthless by grace at Calvary. What can you repent of? seeing sin ended. Not believing God's grace?

Or do you want to repent of things not even belonging to yourself. Things taken by Jesus to a cross at Golgotha.

"With His stripes we are healed". WHY did it not end there? We are healed. Just do good and believe and your in. (Church belief, not God's truth). Jesus then took FUTURE SINS to Calvary.

"While we were yet sinners (still being humans that fall short) Christ died for us."" of for future sins,

Jesus had to take future sins, He had to willingly make the tree evil (His choice). then with future sin belonging to Jesus to fulfill the law in Deuteronomy 24:16 (Every man shall be put to death for His OWN OWN OWN sin.) Jesus dies a sinner.

Dying a sinner got Jesus the keys to death and hell, He descended into hell and on the third day bore EVIL FRUIT, or got them all out.

(ZECHARIAH 9:11) As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein is no water. (KJV)

(ISAIAH 26:19) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. (KJV)

(HOSEA 6:2) After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. (KJV)

The day of the cross is the Vision of the Evening and the Morning.

(DANIEL 8:26) And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days. (KJV)

It is for the week of the Creation story, it is for the day as 7 days seen in Isaiah 30:26. it is all the 7's in Revelation, it is for Daniel's 70 weeks, it is for 1,000 years, it is for many days. as Many as God needed to fulfill every prophecy.

ken1burton

 

Uh, Ken, you have some truth in what you posted, but you have some blatant nonsense as well.

You said:

Have you not read the New Testament? Your above statement is competely unreasonable and unscriptural. Paul is the second greatest contributor to the New Testament. Is all that he wrote in error? Paul was a post-Calvary, born-again child of God. He was taught by Christ himself (Ga. 1:12) and understood very well the truth of justification by faith (see Ro. 4:5; Ga. 2:16).

As to the rest of your post, I refer you to my last post, to which you responded with a peculiar rant about Old Testament prophecy that ultimately addressed none of my questions.

 

aiki.

Your questions were answered. Seeing Repentance is what God is referring to, not pity. it being hid from God's eyes is not that God does not accept repentance but repentance is not needed as all are saved by grace.

Those old Testament Prophecies are the jots and tittles that had to be fulfilled. Not one jot or tittle would go unfulfilled, Not the smallest one.

Making a end of sin is one of them. Bringing in everlasting righteousness is another of them. And Paul and the Disciples spoke ERROR after ERROR after ERROR. Compare what they said to what Jesus had to fulfill.

Jesus had to fulfill Daniel 9:24. He did not have to do what Peter or Paul though He did.

Paul spoke on grace, How come Paul had to be told by God that His grace was sufficient for him? Didn't Paul know about Grace?

Jesus makes a end of sin, and brings in everlasting righteousness at Calvary. Can you see how SUFFICIENT Grace is? It covers everything you could possibily do or say or think or reject.

All of our righteousness is as filthy rags, so add our Baptism, our faith, our works, our repentance and get a PILE of filthy rags. We have the Righteousness of Christ upon us from Job 33:26. What is ours? compared to Christ's righteousness on mankind?

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and HIS HIS HIS Righteousness. Given unto man.

The Old Testament is the law and the prophecies Jesus had to fulfill. The New Testament is a workbook were we are tested to see if we can tell truth from error.

ken1burton

 

Ken, I've heard the O.T. and the N.T. described as the two rails of a train track. What happens to the train when you remove one of the rails of the track? The same thing that happens to a Christian when you remove one of the "rails" of the Bible!

You said,

This remark, coupled with earlier remarks you have made in this thread, imply that, while you have not removed the N.T. rail entirely, it has, at your hands, been badly twisted and skewed. Nonetheless, your theological and doctrinal "train" has derailed as badly as if you had actually removed the N.T. altogether.

The thinking you've voiced in this thread on repentance hinges entirely on your mistaken understanding of Hosea 13:14. You simply assert that you are right and the translators of the NKJV are wrong and move on. But this rather irrational thinking is what is leading you into all kinds of erroneous theology and doctrine. It is not enough, as far as good sense is concerned, to simply say that you are right. Establish from the text, from the meaning of the word itself, and from the whole counsel of scripture what you believe about this "repentance" mentioned in Hosea. It is not convincing to say "I say so, so believe me".

You have not really addressed any point I have made, Ken. Therefore, since you appear willing only to declare and not discuss your thinking, I'll leave you to preach to someone with an ear more eager to hear confusion than mine.

God bless.

 

aiki.

Forget your two track train theory. God's word is a Monorail. It has One God, One Truth, There is no truth that contridicts another truth.

Is "Not one jot ot tittle shall pass from the law till all is fulfilled." to hard to understand?

(LUKE 18:31) Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. (KJV)

Is Luke 18:31 concering the prophecies of Daniel too hard to understand?

(LUKE 22:37) For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. (KJV)

Is a end of the prophecies as being fulfilled too hard to understand?

(JOHN 19:28) After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst. (KJV)

The "Might" is because there are two more things Jesus must do. one is to drink of the fruit of the vine with them new in the Kingdom which is about to be established. The VINEagar will accomplish this. The Second is to allow Himself to die.

(JOHN 19:29) Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. (KJV)
(JOHN 19:30) When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (KJV)

Sin ended or Jesus did not fulfill the prophets. Like it or not. And Jesus did fulfill the prophets. And the seal did just what a seal is designed to do. Keep people from seeing what is hidden there by God. Till the seals are opened.

(REVELATION 5:2) And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof? (KJV)
(REVELATION 5:3) And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. (KJV)
(REVELATION 5:4) And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. (KJV)
(REVELATION 5:5) And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (KJV)

Better start opening seals. Let the Lion help you. He's good at it.

ken1burton