Does God ever violate a Person's Free Will?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Hardsheller, Apr 26, 2005.

  1. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does God ever violate a person's free will? And if so for what purpose?
     
  2. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well there was Saul, whom we know as Paul.

    There was Noah

    There was Joseph, of many colored coat fame

    There was Daniel, Who's fame really began when he was in prison.

    And just think about Moses, he didn't want to be the hero!

    Then there is wonderful Ruth!

    Come to think about it there are just a whole lot of people who get their lives redirected by God, but who had it in their power to refuse!
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Sure! When He puts people in hell -- they don't WANT to Go. He does not MAKE THEM want to go to Hell - He just puts them there.
     
  4. icthus

    icthus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Messages:
    1,114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure! When He puts people in hell -- they don't WANT to Go. He does not MAKE THEM want to go to Hell - He just puts them there. </font>[/QUOTE]Hey Rob, What gives? I know that you simply cannot believe this nonsense that God actually "puts people in hell"
     
  5. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Then there's the murderer who is stopped by the police or the suicide prevented just in time. There's the abortion that fails and a baby is born healthy.... Those people's wills were circumvented by God, too.

     
  6. whetstone

    whetstone
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/11288.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Messages:
    852
    Likes Received:
    0
    this is a weird thread lol. and the people who are posting are saying the opposite of what i expect them to say.
     
  7. whatever

    whatever
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    They are saying what I would expect. Maybe they will begin to see the inconsistency of their beliefs.
     
  8. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure! When He puts people in hell -- they don't WANT to Go. He does not MAKE THEM want to go to Hell - He just puts them there. </font>[/QUOTE]Matthew 25:41 states that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. It was not prepared for men, as men were created in God's image and were intended to spend eternity worshipping Him. If God had decided to put man in hell since before the beginning of time, He would have been a liar in the above verse.
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ok - by the term "hell" I simply mean the Matt 10 "Fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body and Soul in Hell fire".

    And I simply mean Rev 14:10's lake of fire in brimstone "they shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the PRESENCE of the Lamb AND of His Holy ones".

    My point was that those who are placed in such torment and "fiery hell" do not WANT to go there and do not CHOOSE to be "Destroyed both body and soul in fiery hell".

    Wouldn't you agree?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    No I wouldn't agree.

    Those in Heaven get exactly what they want and those in Hell get exactly what they have chosen.
     
  11. Wes Outwest

    Wes Outwest
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,400
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does "for lack of knowledge my people perish" help your understanding of the scene described? Those who are in the lake of fire are there probably because they refused to listen to the bible thumpers, they did not gain the knowledge that if acted on would have kept them from that lake of fire.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    So those in hell say "Oh GOOD! I am in hell jusdt as I asked. How great that I am finally getting just what I want".

    hmmm. That changes the "Calvinist future scenario" somewhat as God the Father points that out to the Parent.
     
  13. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    So those in hell say "Oh GOOD! I am in hell jusdt as I asked. How great that I am finally getting just what I want".

    hmmm. That changes the "Calvinist future scenario" somewhat as God the Father points that out to the Parent.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I didn't say they were HAPPY they were in Hell I said they were there because they CHOSE to be there. They will realize and bemoan that fact for all eternity but the best thought they will ever be able to conjure up in Hell will be - "I'm here because God is a holy and Just God and I deserve to be here."
     
  14. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    I would disagree slightly. God chose them to follow Him but they chose to do their own thing and reject Him.

    Because they chose to reject Him and do their own thing He now chooses to give them the consequences of their choice. God chooses to be just.
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    They don't say that today - and they wont say that then either IF they are ever told that "Calvinism is true" and they never had any other option but to choose hell. IF that ever comes out - they will do as they do today when they hear Calvinists say that...
     
  16. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,816
    Likes Received:
    0
    I still maintain that the original question is much more of a problem for the Arminian than for the Calvinist.

    Perhaps some better questions would be:

    Does God have the ability to override man's free will?

    What would be some examples of that from Scripture?

    What would be some examples of that from contemporary life?
     
  17. King James Bond

    King James Bond
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    In regard to the topic;

    "Does God ever violate a person's free will? And if so for what purpose?"

    No one has or can prove that people have free-will.

    The most that people can do is find truth in the Bible.

    The Bible shows over and over again that the wills of all people are not free but bound in a sinful and evil condition.

    God is in control of all things and He has given many people in this world over to Satan. They are not free! They are bound in darkness.

    The other point is that God violates nothing at all even when He affects the wills of people.

    God is not in violation ever.

    He can do as He pleases among all those on earth and among the armies of heaven.

    It all belongs to Him.

    By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice. (LBC 1689 3;3)

    These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished. (LBC 1689 3;4)

    Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto. (LBC 1689 3;5)

    First one must prove they have what they keep saying they have (free-will). And this they can never do. I am certain many will hold on to this theory until they meet their Maker.

    They will say "It is our free-will that brought us forth to You."....."Good thing you let us do as we pleased and did not violate us"

    I say it is God's will that brought me forth. I will give all thanks and credit glory and praises to Him and Him alone!

    Nothing of me and EVERYTHING OF HIM!

    I am blessed He affected my will....otherwise I would have been lost forever!

    Ephesians 1:4-5
    "He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before Him in love; having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will ,"

    Tis not that I did choose thee, for Lord that could not be, this heart would still refuse thee, but thou hast chosen me, thou hast from the sin that stained me washed me and set me free, and to this end ordained me that I should live to thee. T’was sovereign mercy called me, and taught my opening mind, the world had else enthralled me, to heavenly glories blind. My heart owns none above thee, for thy rich grace I thirst, this knowing --- if I love thee, thou must have loved me first.”

    Regards, KJB [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Loading...