Does God get "hurt" by people who reject him?

Double post due to "error dialog" stating that connection had been refused at the BBS server.

 

As I pointed out there is more than one definition for create. In fact, every pastor in every church "creates" an atmosphere suitable for Preaching the word of God. Every pastor worth his salt creates an atmosphere conducive to conversion of sinners into saints. Now obviously these scenarios in no way equate to the Creation of something from nothing, as God did in the creation of the heavens and the earth.

The "creation" that man can do is reformation of existing elements, or situations, from chaos to harmony, and vice versa. But you know that and take pride in frustrating that which you do not understand. </font>[/QUOTE]This is you ) based on the portraits I see in your posts you want to glorify God, but you cannot get beyond man.

Bro. Dallas

 

Brother Dallas,

Good preaching!

I think you asked why will God burn the earth again. I believe you are referring to II Peter 3:10-12. I believe He will yet judge the world with fire. I think we can safely say that He will torch the earth because of wickedness in the hearts of human being, similar to His judgment when He caused the world wide Flood in the Genesis account of things.

 

As I pointed out there is more than one definition for create. In fact, every pastor in every church "creates" an atmosphere suitable for Preaching the word of God. Every pastor worth his salt creates an atmosphere conducive to conversion of sinners into saints. Now obviously these scenarios in no way equate to the Creation of something from nothing, as God did in the creation of the heavens and the earth.

The "creation" that man can do is reformation of existing elements, or situations, from chaos to harmony, and vice versa. But you know that and take pride in frustrating that which you do not understand. </font>[/QUOTE]This is you ) based on the portraits I see in your posts you want to glorify God, but you cannot get beyond man.

Bro. Dallas </font>[/QUOTE]That is because God created man. He gave man many attributes and abilities that you are so willing to deny, for the purpose of communicating with, praising, worshipping, and working for God's glory.

God's Word tells us we much choose God or face God's judgment. It also tells us that whosoever believeth in His Son shall have eternal life.

You willingly deny that man is God's crowning creation, and that God walked with and talked with man. The whole of God's word is directed to man. There is no similar word for whales, baboons, dogs, horses, spiders, etc., you get the message. Man seems to be the single most important of God's creation.

Is man worthy of God? Only one, His divine Son Jesus. Nevertheless, God seeks man for his purpose, therefore man is of some value to God, though not a value that in any manner alters or affects God, God is impervious to man, but man needs God.

So while you look at man as nothing, I look at man from the perspective that God looks at us. He made us a little lower than the angels, but higher than anything else he created. Though we fell into sin, we have not fallen from the position in which God created us, we remain just a little lower than the angels.

 

Yelsew,

I tried to respond to your post. It got lost in the shuffle somehow. I am not on my computer so I will answer it when I get home.


For now just know that I think you are wrong
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Could I have expected more?

 

Perhaps you could have...but it was wise not to hold your breath.

Bro. Dallas

 

If God loves every man, woman, and child without exception, where is the evidence? Please do not say the Cross...we know multitudes upon multitudes die without ever hearing about that. So...?

 

Thanks Brother Ray,

I believe the earth will be renovated. I believe the universe was part of the original creation found at Gen. 1.1. At the judgment of satan, then he being cast from heaven, vs 2 enters. I don't believe God created anything void and in darkness, but the presence of sin and the resulted wrath of God brought about what 'seems' to be a chaotic state in the primitive creation.

I believe the world will then be renovated independent of the sin of man, simply because this creation will also be restored to the place it was prior to the entrance of sin into it through the influence of fallen Lucifer. I believe all that will be redeemed, man, beast and earth--note the study of redemption in Israel--were redeemed by Christ who is the Kinsman Redeemer. I believe through this redemption all shall be lifted higher than the original creation.

I had hoped to make Yelsew think with my question, which I also attempted to answer, though briefly. He disregarded it however, the fact that even the universe is now corruptible and in like manner akin to fallen man, even this corruptible will have put on (through the power of God) an incorruptible in that day.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Originally posted by Yelsew:

That is because God created man.

True

He gave man many attributes and abilities that you are so willing to deny,

I do not deny them, the Bible teaches man fell from these 'attributes' which are adjectively speaking of God in your view you sound like a Mormon in that belief; second as these attributes are adjectives the abilities,which you list and leave off the attributes, are verbs, this tendency is why I always disagree with you because every topic, every thread you always bring works into view and ultimately base salvation on some form of works or the other. When plain scripture is offered you will not receive it. Further, not only do you attempt to bring in works, you continually attempt to equate the 'image' of man and his so-called 'attributes' to that of his Creator, this tells me you are confused as to 'who made who'. Next, I find that not only are you willing to bring works to bear on an individual's salvation, you also are willing to deny the need of the Grace of God altogether if you can pull out of this denial a fallacy that apart from Grace man believes from his heart, prior to regeneration. These are some of the issues I have with you. As soon as I think we are working our way through them you come back to the same argument that man possesses the same 'attributes' as God you know full well this is not true; God is Spirit; God was manifest in the flesh; in the flesh God died for sin to condemn sin; (this condemnation does hold in view individuals, but it has in view sin), (another question, apart from the Cross would Christ have died? I know you think he could have because you have argued he could have sinned, only chose not to.) By the Spirit of Holiness Christ (God with us--Emmanuel) was raised from the dead). Man possesses no like attribute of God, the closest one would be mercy, but even the mercy of man is limited and that of God has no depth.

Love cannot be compared because at some time or the other the love of man is driven by a desire and this desire is one coming not from a pure holy love of man but from the desire of the heart; it is only after knowing the Love of God that either man or woman can properly view their spouse and love them in as near capacity as man is able to compare to that of our Holy God. Before there is a love there, but it is mixed with the desire of the flesh, can you, in your age and experience deny this?

God's Word tells us we much choose God or face God's judgment. It also tells us that whosoever believeth in His Son shall have eternal life.

True, yet there are none who are able to make this correct choice until after having been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, apart from this man cuts down a tree, builds a fire with a portion of the wood, from this fire he derives warmth, cooking of his food and he views the sparks emminating upward toward heaven, then he takes the remainder, or a portion therof, of the stock of this tree and he fashions himself an image and bows down his head to that image, he does this because his rational mind tells him this wood is his god because it has provided these things to him, yeah, natural man will seek after god, but this god is not the True and Living God revealed in scripture.

You willingly deny that man is God's crowning creation, and that God walked with and talked with man. The whole of God's word is directed to man. There is no similar word for whales, baboons, dogs, horses, spiders, etc., you get the message. Man seems to be the single most important of God's creation.

I never denied this, I only state that this 'crowning creation' is a fallen creature, hopeless in sinfulness except by the Grace of God he is moved upon by the Holy Spirit and regenerated. I do not deny that God walked with man, but I do believe as many Jews teach that Adam did not abide one day before falling; note man was created in one day, the sixth day, also that woman was not created but taken from man; also on the sixth day; it is on the seventh day that God sanctified the day, (the day did not set itself apart), and rested and it is in this day the sin and fall of man interrupted the rest of God, remember Christ told the Pharisees that his father worketh hitherto?

We already had the 'whales and baboons talk' we can reopen it if it will ease your mind. It is certain you do not wish to speak from a scriptural position of any kind. Again, I do not deny the place of man in the creation of God; but man fell from this place and now it is required for Christ the daysman to take a hold of God (He only can because He is God) and to take a hold of man (He only can because though the Son of man, He is sinless) and mediate between the two to reconcile man to God. In your view you teach God reconciling to man. I deny, I reject and I denounce that position.

Is man worthy of God? Only one, His divine Son Jesus. Nevertheless, God seeks man for his purpose, therefore man is of some value to God, though not a value that in any manner alters or affects God, God is impervious to man, but man needs God.

Basically, I agree with you here. Rest assured I have read the paragraph many times to be certain. I don't mind agreeing with you when and where your position lines up with the Word of God, but I refuse to agree with anyone where they attempt to line the Word of God up to their position, or to preserve their position deny the word of God.

So while you look at man as nothing, I look at man from the perspective that God looks at us. He made us a little lower than the angels, but higher than anything else he created. Though we fell into sin, we have not fallen from the position in which God created us, we remain just a little lower than the angels.

The Biblical view of man is that he is but dust and ashes, he is a wretch, he is a worm...I agree with this view...if that is what you mean to say you are right.

Again, you must surely not expect to think of yourself or any other of being capable, even in a saved position, of seeing anything from God's perspective. What happened to 'my ways are not your ways' God speaking to man...concerning the difference of the two ways and the higher way of God. Move on to something else, you'll never prove this through scripture, nor human rhetoric.

He made us a little lower than the angels, but higher than anything else he created. Though we fell into sin, we have not fallen from the position in which God created us, we remain just a little lower than the angels

I recopied this and brought it down independent of your paragraph because I believe as a thought it does not belong to the paragraph you had written, there is a measure of truth found in this thought. But not all of it. The false part of it is that which says "...we have not fallen from the position in which God created us,..." While that which immediately surrounds this falsehood remains correct, we would be lower than the angels whether man had ever fallen or not, the truth found in scripture is that man did fall. The fall of man is not geographical, not spatial, not really positional at all, though we do employ these terms or there antecedants. In truth, the fall is an event that occurred spiritually in man. Remember the great truth that man is created in the image of God; and how you mangle this truth when you say man retains this image though he fell into sin? Well, the image of God that man has been created into hold many facets of which I will not touch all, but I do want to speak here and now concerning that image man was originally created in.

God is a Trinity, yet God is ONE. Man is created a triune being, body, soul, and spirit. Yet this triune has been 'separated' if you will at the event of the fall. It is this separation which man has lost the fullness of the image and likeness of God into which God has originally created. Now, I ask you, even in separation is God separate, or does he remain one.

What is resulted from this separation that we do not see in God? First is the separation of body--flesh, soul--life and spirit--will of man. These three war against each other in the man, do we see the Trinity of God warring, or cooperating toward the end of fullfilling the Will of the Godhead as covenanted by God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? The answer is obvious...isn't it (Heb. 10.5 I think).

Begin a study from Genesis 1.26&27 and follow this topic throughout the word of God you will find it holds true. Also you will find that we shall be raised to a plane much higher than the angels; much higher than even our original creation enjoyed.

This is enough for now.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Response #1 to Frogman, Bro Dallas,

Agape, Phileo, and Eros are the three types of love known to man. Of those three types only one of them is considered to be an attribute and that is Agape love. The other two are things that man does from his own God given ability to "love".

In accordance with scripture God is Spirit. God has attributes (that which is true of God). God made man in his image. Therefore Man is spirit and man has attributes. In order to be in the image of God, man must have attributes that are similar to those of God. I do not compare man with God, but I do look at the similarities that God gave to man that He himself has. We know that God has love for the beloved apostle said that God is Love. That could be a topic all by itself, but If God is love, then Love is God. So regarding not recognizing all scripture at face value, this is one scripture that I do not recognize at face value. We know that God has grace because he is behaving graciously toward his creation. We know that God has mercy, because He demonstrates his great mercy to us, and we believe that God is Just, because he has given us foreknowledge of our eternal fate that is in accordance with our response to His only begotten son. Each of us have human proportions of each of those attributes by which we are to behave towards each other. Please note that I am not saying that humanity is equal to God as some of you have accused me of doing. I have never made such statements!

 

Response #2 to Frogman, Bro. Dallas,

You do not understand grace, or any of the other attributes of God which he endowed to man. An attribute of God is something that is true of God. Attributes are not dispensable, that is, they cannot be transferred from one to another as one would hand out candy from my hand to yours. So when God gives his grace to man, he is not transferring grace to man like a commodity, but is rather behaving toward man in accordance with the essence of the attribute. If you do not agree, try giving away your love. You cannot give your love to another, however, you can behave lovingly toward the other.

You presume much about our "working our way through them". Your evidence is not convincing!

Jesus did not die to condemn sin, but rather to atone for sin. Jesus' death did not defeat sin, if it did we who live 2000 years after the fact would not be able to sin. We sin, therefore sin continues to exist. Where sin exists, man must recognize, through divine influence, his sins and confess, and repent from sin.

Jesus is called "Son of Man". It is prescribed for man to die and then the judgment. You would argue 'til you're blue in the face, that Jesus was fully man. If Jesus was fully man then he had in his essence the same mechanism that causes all men to sin. The fact that His Father is God, prevented him from falling in sin. In fact, he was tested by satan in the desert. If the possibility that he could sin was not present, what is the purpose for the testing? If it is not possible for Jesus to have sinned, the testing is a foolish exercise, and satan knew that!

No argument, except by the same Spirit of God we will all be raised. The difference is that God raised his Son in accordance with and in fulfillment of prophesy regarding the Messiah.

 

Response #3 to Frogman, Bro. Dallas,

You certainly have a way of denigrating that which God thought so much of as to give, in the form of redeeming ransom, his ONLY begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life.

 

Response #4 to Frogman, Bro. Dallas,

If you are the father of a child, is that child anything but what you are? Jesus is the son of God, can he be anything but God? Man remains a little lower than the angels, that is the place where God put him. Man has not fallen to the level of the ground hog, but retains dominion over all other species, in the same place that God put him. Man retains the position, but not the status that Adam had prior to sinning. Man retains the position because God did not alter creation because man sinned. Man remains the crown of God's creation, but does not have the relationship with God that God intended for him.

 

Response #5 to Frogman, Bro. Dallas,

Do you believe that God would give his ONLY begotten son to save dust and ashes, wretches, and worms? NO! He gave his ONLY begotten son to redeem mankind from every walk of life and everywhere that man finds himself, from sin that has separated man from God.

You can think of yourself as dust, ashes, wretched and a worm if you wish, but God does not think of you as such! Yes, I agree those thoughts are recorded in the scriptures, but I find no where that God is the one speaking them.

 

response #6 to Frogman, Bro, Dallas,

We most assuredly can view man from God's perspective, he gives us his perspective in our physical-spiritual make up. He tells us what we are in relationship to himself. You are mixing apples and oranges by introducing God's ways/Man's ways into this discussion. As I said earlier mankind is the God's crowning achievement in the creation, Man sinned thus separating himself from direct contact with God. You say that Man has fallen, I ask from what and where to what and where. You would have everyone believe that God significantly altered his creation to make a place of low estate for mankind, but the evidence does not support your claim for man still has dominion over the rest of God's creation. Man retains a spirit with attributes in the image of God. BUT Man sins and is therefore separated from God by that sin. God sent his son Jesus to mankind, identified him to us as the Son of God the Messiah, Jesus told us in his own words that if we believe in him we have eternal life. He taught us much of himself and of the Kingdom of God, then he allowed himself to be crucified as the atonement for our sins. He appeared to his followers after dying and being raised, and to a significant number of eye witnesses who believed in him, then he ascended in the cloud to take his rightful place at the father;s right hand, the redemption work of the father being completed! The worthy Lamb of God! I suspect that is somewhat how God sees those events.

 

Response #7 to Frogman, Bro. Dallas,

"Male and female he created them" This alone rules out physical image of God. Jesus, tells us that "God is spirit" The image of spirit is spirit. Therefore, man both male and female are spirit in the image of God.

 

Response #8 to Frogman, Bro. Dallas,

Works? I have never brought works into the salvation equation. And there is no confusion in my mind as to "who made who". Though by your response you appear to be confused.

For clarification, I post the definitions that are common to man for Image, Grace, Attribute, and quality.

 

Beloved, let us love one another. For love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who loves not knows not God, for God is love. I John 4:7-8

We are to love all men, women, and children without exception, just as God loves them. God is love. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves. Every man, woman, and child is our neighbor.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only son... John 3:16

 

Reply...1-8

Woe is me...I am defeated by numbers!

What shall I answer to my Lord in that day when the numbers of my ministry do not match the great swelling numbers of those giving to man the ability to stand though he is dead?

Woe is me...I am defeated by conscious!

What shall I answer to my Lord in that day if I were able to show to him great swelling numbers attributing their 'belief' to my ministry and He answers to me...not one of these did I call, but each have been called by your man-made doctrine that man is sufficient in himself to belief and receive?

I remain as always, steadfast in the truth of God's word that man is dead in trespasses and sin and that he must 'pass from death unto life' why must he pass from death to life if not dead, but partially alive?

I am impressed Yelsew. I have a full answer to respond, but it will occur in another topic post. Hopefully you will have time to read it. Because of my schedule and responsibilities this may take a day to post, I know you will be on the edge of your keyboard in anticipation.
God Bless.
Bro. Dallas