Does God hate sinners?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Some say that God does not love sinners but hates them. However when I read the Bible I read that God hates the sinners sin, and what they have become, but does not desire anyone to perish but all to come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).

    Calvinist and Reformed that take the scripture out of context argue that God does not love everyman and woman alive, but hates many. I find that message contrary to what scripture teaches. What do you say?
     
  2. freeatlast

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    Yes God hates sinners. Deu 25:16, Psalm 5:5, 11:5, Hosea 9:15, There are many more passages, but those are a few.
     
    #2 freeatlast, Dec 8, 2011
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  3. Skandelon

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    And I notice all of them are quoted from the OT, prior to the fulfillment of revelation in Christ who clearly taught us to love our enemies and that God's love for sinners was the motivation of His sacrifice.

    Plus, as MacArthur wisely points out, "...the mainstream of Reformed theologians have always affirmed the love of God for all sinners. John Calvin himself wrote regarding John 3:16, "[Two] points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish."
    Calvin continues to explain the biblical balance that both the gospel invitation and "the world" that God loves are by no means limited to the elect alone."
     
  4. PeterM

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    While I may be incapable of loving and hating with an equal all consuming passion, I suspect God is not bound by the limitations I suffer. I would be exceedingly cautious with the notion of prioritizing the NT over the OT. They form a single narrative... the redemption of man by and through God's love, exercised in His grace and mercy which deliver me faith, forgiveness, and freedom.

    The truth of the OT must be true... God does not change. Do we enjoy existence under a new covenant? Absolutely... and PTL! Those who remain outside God's grace remain under God's wrath.
     
  5. convicted1

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    I think that "God so loved the world" would suffice to answer the OP's question quite nicely.
     
  6. freeatlast

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    Very good post. :thumbsup: I am gald to see you believe the bible.
     
  7. evangelist6589

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    Thats because you hold to Covenant theology and not Dispensational theology.
     
  8. PeterM

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    LOL!!! Have I at some point insinuated that I don't? If I have, I may need to request forgiveness.
     
  9. freeatlast

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    No not at all, however many others here, and I do not mean this as an insult to anyone just fact and a call to wake up, do not believe what the bible says as they change what it says for man's teachings. My statement was one of a refreshing spirit, not of accusation or sly remark. I am not the best at getting into print what I intend to express.
     
    #9 freeatlast, Dec 8, 2011
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  10. PeterM

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    Oddly enough, I had to reacquaint myself with the tenants of Covenant vs. Dispensational theology. I find myself not fitting neatly into either one fully, although you accurately point out that I lean toward one over the other.
     
  11. PeterM

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    Not a problem... just making sure. I've been known to have to clarify from time to time... even from what I spout from the pulpit. :thumbs:
     
  12. 12strings

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    I think there are two potential errors here:

    1. "God does not hate anyone...or "God loves the sinner and hates the sin." This statement is nowhere in the bible! It comes from pagan thought. There are clearly places in the bible where God Hates the wicked...
    -Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"


    2. "God does not love sinners." However, we should also note that God also loves those he hates:
    -John 3:16 - (no need to quote that one) [if we need to discuss if "the world" includes unbelievers, we can, but hopefully the following 2 verses will make that discussion unnecessary)
    -2 Peter 3:9 - The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you,1 not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
    -Matt. 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. (God loves his enemies, and expresses this by giving them rain and sun...sometimes called common grace)

    Now...He Does NOT Love everyone the same way. He does not love those who have rejected him in the same way he loves those who have received him.
     
  13. Skandelon

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    Are you implying that God loves that which He hates? Or could it be that God loves the sinner while hating the sin?

    I never suggested such. Instead I suggest we interpret the OT through the light of the Word revealed in the NT.

    I agree, yet it is you who seem to be making the case for two different narratives....one where God hates sinners and one where He loves them. I believe it is ONE narrative: God loves sinners and hates the sin.
     
  14. Skandelon

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    :eek:

    I guess John Calvin and many Reformed believers are pagans because they affirm:

    1. God loves sinners

    and

    2. God hates sin

    While His salvific love is "different" for the elect in the Reformed tradition, it is NEVER denied as being love.
     
  15. PeterM

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    I am implying nothing... I am articulating as clearly as my feeble being and understanding will allow. Please forgive me. That said, I will do my best to simplify what I attempted to say.

    1. Does God love sinners? Yes absolutely! John 3.16 and Romans 5.8 speak to these things quite clearly, though some folks may interpret "us" in the Romans passage imply the elect only... I don't know that I would be so exclusive, but some do. I think you and I agree on this so I figured I would begin here.

    2. Does God hate sin? Yes, without question. Scripture is replete with that truth, but since clarity is necessary I will cite Psalm 119.104 as an example.

    Does God hate sinners? If we are going to remain fixed on the inherent infallible truth of God's Word we must answer yes. Here are texts that establish the position:

    Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"

    Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."

    Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them."

    Prov. 6:16-19, "There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: 17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, feet that run rapidly to evil, 19 A false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

    Hosea 9:15, "All their evil is at Gilgal; indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels."

    We cannot isolate this truth in just the OT however. I believe the Gospels reveal Jesus' anger/wrath/hatred for sin and sinner in several areas. Probably the most prevalent in my view would be the Pharisees and religious leaders of the day. Their corruption brought the righteous anger of Christ out to the point of violence (casting out the money changers from the Temple) and even name calling (identifying them as a brood of vipers or as white washed tombs).

    In all of this, I am convinced that both God's love for sinners and His hatred for sinners are equally true. God, in my view, is complex enough in His being to have both love and hate focused in the same direction. I may not be capable of that, God certainly is. When God poured out His wrath on Christ, was all of God's hatred consumed? Nope... John's Apocalypse reveals that there are depths to God's wrath man has not yet even begun to understand or experience.

    In closing, while we may not agree on this issue (and I don't think it is a doctrine that should bring division), I think that you and I could agree on the truth that while God loves and hates, He has never ever been apathetic.
     
  16. convicted1

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    Brethern, let's look @ this rationally. God does in fact love sinners. Who did Jesus come to seek and save? Sinners. If He doesn't love sinners, then we'd all be goners. For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

    Jesus did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
     
  17. convicted1

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    Isaiah 5:25 Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

    Isaiah 9:17 Therefore the LORD shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

    Isaiah 9:12 The Syrians before, and the Philistines behind; and they shall devour Israel with open mouth. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

    Isaiah 9:21 Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh: and they together shall be against Judah. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.

    Isaiah 10:4 Without me they shall bow down under the prisoners, and they shall fall under the slain. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.



    Here are these verses that show God's mercy even when He was mad. It's like when your child disobeys you, and you whip them. What you are doing is showing your displeasure in what they did. Just because you were mad at them, didn't mean you wanted to annihilate them, but gave them the "rod of correction". Even as God was doing these things, His merciful hand was there to lift them up, if/when they called out to Him for His mercy.
     
    #17 convicted1, Dec 9, 2011
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  18. Cypress

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    Like this approach! Sums it up for me:love2::thumbsup:
     
  19. freeatlast

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    This is more then God just being angry over an issue. This is about the depths and being of the person, both who and what they are. Scripture teaches God hates sinners. It also teaches he loved the world enough to make a way for our salvation. Both are taught and both must be accepted if we believe what the bible teaches. His hate is not greater then His love and His love is not greater then His hate. He works His mercy in the mist of it all and for a season His hate is bing surprised. However when His hate is set loose on man, and one day it will be, there will be no amount of love to suppress it.
     
    #19 freeatlast, Dec 9, 2011
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  20. 12strings

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    I Guess I should have clarified (you always have to clarify on this board...why can't people just read my mind???):

    The idea that God "ONLY" hates sin and not the sinner is not found in scripture...indeed PeterM has noted numerous places where God says he does in fact hate the sinner, wicked, doers of iniquity.


    I believe I am on the same page as PeterM:
    -God Loves sinners
    -God Hates sin
    -God also hates the sinner. (and loves him).

    I don't see how one could deny any of these without disregarding multiple clear statements in scripture.
     

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