Does God have a Mother II

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Eliyahu, Dec 17, 2005.

  1. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
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    I think we have already covered many things on this issue but am not sure whether other posters have some more needs. Personally I want to clarify some points raised by Bunyon, because I feel he showed us some different angle.

    Bonyon, would you mind showing us any site address if any, about Cyrill vs Nestorius?
    If possible we'd better have a correct history for the right discernment.

    I want to know the relationship between Cyrill and Nestorius, and the other attendants, previous relationship between 2 and the qualifications of both guys and the beliefs etc.


    Later on we may cover some rest of the main issue Mother of God theory!
     
  2. Eliyahu

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    Just for the new visitors who have not participated or seen the first thread, "Does God have a Mother" I, I would like to summarize the questions as follows:

    1) Does God the Holy Spirit have a Mother?
    2) Does God the Father have a Mother ?
    3) Does God the Son (Son of God) have a Mother?
    4) Did Mary give birth to God?
    5) Did Elisabeth call Mary " Mother of God" ?
    6) Is Abraham God because Sarah called him Lord(1 Pet 3:6)?

    If you think God the Son has His Mother, please answer after you read carefully Heb 7:3

    Also, we mentioned about the problems with Human Syllogism, which include:
    Jesus is God, therefore Mary is Mother of God, If anyone denies that Mary is Mother of God, she or he denies Jesus is God and Trinity is true.

    Welcome your participation!
     
  3. natters

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    24 pages wasn't enough for you?
     
  4. webdog

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    Obviously if people skirt around the same questions, you will continue to ask those same logical questions. It was you, natters, who claims that anyone who doesn't think the way you do should repent and get help with their pastor.
     
  5. Bunyon

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    It is enough for me natters, are you ready to accept now that you aren't going to get good Baptist to loose 500 years of progress and go back to a Title that has cost so much pain and split the church before and been abused by goddess worshippers since the council of Ephesus.
     
  6. natters

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    I said nothing about repenting. I only suggested that those of you who are obviously having trouble with the standard, orthodox Christian position on this matter ask you pastor about it - perhaps he can help you understand it and explain why it is the standard, orthodox Christian position.

    Have any of you talked to your pastors about this yet?

    I'm not asking you to go back to the title, I personally don't care if you use it or not. My main purpose in the thread was to try to explain why its core meaning is entirely orthodox, despite any abuse and misunderstanding by others.
     
  7. Bunyon

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    "I'm not asking you to go back to the title, I personally don't care if you use it or not. My main purpose in the thread was to try to explain why its core meaning is entirely orthodox, despite any abuse and misunderstanding by others."------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And I repeat your and Cyril's sylogism relys on limiting the meaning of mother. If you have go make extra efforts to force it to work, that should tell you somehing. It naturally make no sense to floks until you beat them over the head with your limited definitions of mother.
     
  8. natters

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    So what?

    We have the same problem with MANY theological issues and terms. "Trinity" is even harder to explain and understand.
     
  9. Bunyon

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    "We have the same problem with MANY theological issues and terms. "Trinity" is even harder to explain and understand."--------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But Trinity does not have a 1500 year history of trouble and abuse to prove that it is more trouble than it is worth.
     
  10. natters

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    So "trouble" should be a determining factor in orthodoxy? I think not.

    And if you think the Trinity does not have trouble, try telling that to the JWs, Mormons, United Pentecostals, never mind the Muslims, etc.
     
  11. Bunyon

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    "So "trouble" should be a determining factor in orthodoxy? I think not.

    And if you think the Trinity does not have trouble, try telling that to the JWs, Mormons, United Pentecostals, never mind the Muslims, etc."---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I am only concerned with Christians. The differnces, is it causes alot of problems and does not contribute anything. All my life I have been around christians who did not use the title, but who advocated the full divenity of Christ. The only folks who ever NEEDED this title were virgin Godess worshipors.
     
  12. natters

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    So you're saying that "Christians" require a proper understanding of who Jesus is?

    In my opinion, it contributes quite a lot, once properly understood - as is evidenced on the other thread where several people rejected the orthodox Christian position on who Jesus is, in a defense as to why they reject the term "Mother of God".
     
  13. Bunyon

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    Forgive them, for they did not know that you were maneuvering them into a bad position with a subtle switch of the meaning of Mother, they knew not what they did.
     
  14. natters

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    Funny. However, I made the meaning I was using crystal clear (and so did several others) from the start.
     
  15. Bunyon

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    Funny. However, I made the meaning I was using crystal clear (and so did several others) from the start. "-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Playing with sylogisms and logic strings and abstract concepts of how christ's human and God natures are bound is not someting these fine upstanding christians have much experience with, so it could not be clear to us in the beginning.
     
  16. natters

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    Doubting Thomas said "Mary is the mother of God in the sense that the one--Jesus Christ--she conceived and bore in time was from eternity, God. It does not mean that she's the source of Christ's divinity." and "Mary is indeed the Mother of God because the one she conceived , bore and gave birth to is in fact truly God. However, she obviously is not the source of Christ's divinity, since He had that from eternity."

    I said "Mary gave birth to his divinity as well, but that doesn't mean that's when his divinity began." and " "mother of" does not require the meaning "origin of"."

    If that wasn't clear to you, how do you suggest we have said it?
     
  17. BobRyan

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    Joseph is the teacher of Jesus -- Where are all the "Teacher of God" titles for Joseph?

    Where are all the RC promoters of mary - clammoring for Joseph to be called "Teacher of God" or else Christ is not the INCARNATE form of God the Son?!!

    They are nowhere! Because such unbiblical titles HAVE NOTHING to do with PROOF that Christ is the Son of God!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. Ransom

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    Eliyahu said, in the old thread:

    Human Syllogism

    Ho hum.

    Eliyahu, having previously demonstrated that he has no great understanding of orthodox Christology, orthodox Trinitarian theology, or church history, decides to go for the clean sweep and demonstrate that he has no clue about logic, either, or indeed what a "syllogism" is.

    :rolleyes:
     
  19. Ransom

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    BobRyan said:

    Joseph is the teacher of Jesus -- Where are all the "Teacher of God" titles for Joseph?

    Joseph is the "teacher of God" in exactly the same sense as Mary is the "mother of God" - that is, he was (we may assume) the teacher of Jesus Christ, who is God.

    Therefore, to call Joseph the "teacher of God" in that sense is perfectly orthodox, just as calling Mary the "mother of God" in that sense is.

    As to why no one is clamouring for this title to be used of him, obviously it was never the basis of a theological controversy, probably since Joseph was not Jesus' biological father, so it never came up. Let me just add, however, that inventing arbitrary controversies that never existed doesn't actually win arguments.
     
  20. Eliyahu

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    The above arguments show the reasons enough to re-open the session.

    Natters once mentioned these:
    Word was God, Word became flesh and therefore flesh is God, because he cannot think that God became what is not God.

    What I want to clarify here is that Human Syllogism doesn't work in understanding Words of God and the Truth of God at all !!!

    The Word was God, The Word was made flesh, but it doesn't work vice versa, because we have the following verses:

    God is a Spirit (Jn 4:24)
    It is the spirit that quickeneth, the flesh profiteth nothing. (Jn 6:63)
    The Lord is that Spirit (2 Cor 3:17)

    If you need more evidences, I can continue to show them.

    If you still believe that Human Syllogy is applicable to the interpretation of Bible I can continue further:

    Mary is Mother of God
    God is Mary's Son.

    God is the Creator,
    Mary is the Mother of Creator.

    Adam is the ancestor of God (I remember Natters told this in other Thread)
    God created His Ancestor,
    and God expelled His ancestor from Eden.

    Son of God was born by Mary
    Son's mother is the wife of Father
    Therefore Mary is the wife of God too.
    If anyone denies this, she or he is denying
    Trinity! Anathema!

    James is the Brother of Jesus,
    Jesus is God,
    Therefore James is God's Brother,
    If anyone denies this, he or she is denying
    that Jesus is God, Anathema!
    If we ask someone's brother for help, then the person listens to his brother very well, therefore if we pray to James, the Brother of God, then every plea can be heard and will be answered.

    These are comedies fabricated by Human Syllogism.
    Any theory, any Orthodox, any religion based on stupid human syllogism are all Strawman, Sugarman, Snowman, Sillyman, Slickyman!

    We can imagine a lot of people were tortured and killed at the Inquisition by the Inquisitors using these kinds of Huaman Syllogism.

    Who are the Orthodox ?
    1) If anyone calls Mother of God? No
    2) If any religion conduct Infant Baptism? No
    3) If anyone calls Pope " Holy Father" ? No
    We have only one Holy Father.
    4) If anyone believes in Purgatory? No
    5) If anyone has clergy system? No
    6) If anyone worship Statue of Mary or Joseph? No
    7) If anyone call Mary as Queen of Heaven ? No
    8) If anyone trust Clergy system? No, we are all holy priests
    9) If any religion conducts Magic Show by Transubstantiation? No
    10) If anyone conduct Unction on dead bodies? No
    11) If any religion believe Immaculate Conception? No
    12) If anyone believe Mary's Assumption? No
    13) If any religion have the custom of kissing on the Cross? No
    14)If any religion conduct Crusade and Masacre ? No
    15) If any religion makes Concordat with Adolf Hitler and Third Reich? No

    Any religion performing any or all of the above mentioned heresies are cult full of heresies and they used to accuse the other true believers as heretic! in order to disguise themselves as Angels of Light!

    There are some more, but the above is for the moment!

    Any religion which is based on Human Syllogism is human fabricated Snowman, Sugarman, Strawman !!!
     

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