Does God Know you?

Excellent James! Your brief comments before about the passage had me misunderstanding your view. Maybe my mistake. Thank you for elaborating on it.

Thank you.

Ok, your view says the criers were rejected because they did not do the will of the Father. I agree in part.

Secondly you said that the "knowing" part is about knowing them for their commandment keeping. (Jump says knowing them for their works, same thing I suppose) .

How about the "never" part? What you are suggesting about the "knowing" part would then mean the criers "never" kept even one commandment of God. Yet, if they are saved, they surely did keep at least one commandment which is believe on the Son. What is your view on Jesus' word "never" ?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I'm going to assume you mean this in the eternal salvation sense. However, believing on the Son is only something a saved individual can do. And James tells us that even if they believe in the Son, if it doesn't produce works that faith is worthless.

So even if they did believe on the Son and I would assume they did. We have no reason to believe they didn't. It is pointless, because it didn't produce the right works.

 

I think that would imply that knowing was an on/off thing like a lightswitch. While believing is the first and most important step toward having that type of intimate fellowship with Christ, I don't think it would be applicable for most believers at the point of salvation to say they know Christ in that sense. That would be like saying a man who adopts a child knows him from the moment he brings him home. It starts there, but it is continuing in fellowship that will result in the Lord saying 'this man knew me'. Looking back in my life, there was a period of time where I believed I was walking with the Lord but then I fell out of fellowship. When I repented and came back to the Lord and back to the church of God's people, it became evident to me that even though I was a believer, and I did good things in His name, I didn't know the Lord then like I do now.

 

Back "then", did the Lord "know" you by your commandment keeping?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I would have to think that if I had died in that state, when I appeared at the judgment seat I would have heard differently. I can understand why Paul gives warnings such as this:

1 Corinthians 10:12-13
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

What causes a man to succumb to temptation, when God plainly will not tempt you above what you can handle? If we are walking in fellowship with Christ, we should overcome. The calvinist is right when he says we must persevere, but he is wrong to apply that to the free gift of eternal salvation.

 

I was refering to the back then when you WAS walking with Jesus before your backslide.

But let's just cut through the chase and answer some questions.

Lacy and Jump can answer as well I hope.

Answer these questions with your pov concerning the "know" in Matt 7, what ever that may be (commandment keeping, sins, works, etc)

#1) Does Jesus know you this day? (Yes, No, I don't know)

#2) If tomorrow you should wilfully turn away from following Jesus, does Jesus then NOT know you? (Yes, No, I don't know)

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I was too, I don't think I could possibly say Christ 'knew me'.

I don't know.

Err, yes?

 

Then your melliniem pov is that the scriptures teach that you cannot know.

You teach the scriptures teach us how we must be saved (spiritually, eternally) and we can know it for sure.

You teach that the scriptures teach us how we must be saved (soul, melliniem reign) but we cannot know it for sure.

So you teach others that they must do this and that and after you have done all that the scriptures tell us to do you still don't know if it was enough, or done correctly.

Back to lost in the unknown! You are teaching nothingness.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

And you still can't say it, right? So what did you gain towards earning a place in Christ reign?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

What do these scriptures say about eternal spiritual salvation?

1 John 3:20-21
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Philippians 3:11-14
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

I also believe the scriptures tell us how to be saved in eternity and that you may know it for sure. I just don't believe the majority of scriptures are talking about that salvation. If that was all God had for us in scripture, the Bible would probably be a lot shorter. The majority of the scriptures are written for our benefit, those who believe.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I can't argue that a man can know for sure he will reign with Christ, because the Bible specifically warns against such boasting.

Romans 11:21-22
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness:
otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

That was the question that started this thread, wasn't it? How does scripture say that you can know that Christ knows you? According to those scriptures, can you say Christ knows you?

 

I am asking questions based on what you guy's view states the meaning of "know" is in the passage.

Are not keeping commandments, not obeying, no fellowship with Christ. Jump has said that it means "no worthy works".

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Nothing.

I never asked if we should "boast". I asked if you know. And you replied you do not know. Yet you teach we must do the will of the Father. Therefore you cannot know what the will of the Father is if you cannot know if you are doing it.


God Bless! :thumbs:

 

The question was "Does God know you"?

And you answer has been "I don't know".

Yes, I can say that Christ knows me because I do the will of the Father, I obey those scriptures.

Why can't you? Do you not obey those scriptures?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

Ok, believing on the Son doesn't count, we will throw that one out. How about not stealing? or honoring thy father and mother? or loving thy neighbor as thyself? or obeying by never getting drunk? or obeying by singing songs and hymns unto the Lord? Tything?

Do any of these count as having at least one commandment kept?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

I'll not take this opportunity to lay my sins bare before you, but I do know there are areas in my life that need to be tightened up. If I could say that I knew I was following God 100% today, I couldn't say I knew I would be tomorrow. If you can say for sure that God knows you, are you saying that you are keeping all the commandments and you know you will continue keeping them? One thing I can say with certainty is that God desires to have fellowship with me. I know this from His word, and from experience in my life. I can take hope in this, and try to do better today than I did yesterday.

Philippians 3:11-14
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul said there was a prize that he pressed toward, and would not count himself to have apprehended it already. That prize is the ressurection of the dead. If Paul didn't rest on his past works, but continued to strive daily, should not we follow his example?

 

Now you are promoting a "you must be perfect" doctrine to enter into the kingdom?

With all due respect brother James, your doctrinal pov on Matt 7 has come to the same end as brother Jump. "I don't know what the will of the Father is, else I could do it and KNOW Jesus knows me and I will enter into the kingdom".

That is not "hope of glory"! That is "I have no idea"! It is a hopeless teaching and hopelessness is not in any of Jesus' messages.

You know this from His word. Do you not know from His word what the will of the Father is as well? Do you find it impossible to do His will?

Where is your hope James? Is it not in yourself? That you hope you will do better today than yesterday?

My hope of Glory is Christ in me as the scripture declares....Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Does not ALL born of God receive the ressurrection of the dead unto life? Yet we all wait, we all have not yet apprehended it already. It is not something that we earn, it is what we are told is coming for us.

"If by any means I might attain". Not impying uncertainty; there is no doubt about the realization. The only uncertainty is as to how Paul is going to attain unto the ressurrection of the dead: by a martyr's death, by a nonviolent death, or by the Rapture. Sufferings cannot daunt Paul; death cannot terrorize him. These are just opportunities for a fuller and richer fellowship with Christ.

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect". Paul disclaims perfection; he had made great progress in Christlikeness, but the goal is still before him not behind him. As is with us all.

"But I follow after" I am pressing on. Paul is encouraged, not discouraged, as he keeps up the chase in pursuit of the goal.

"if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus" If I may lay hold of that for which I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Christ laid hold of Paul on the road to Damascus, and Paul's desire is to lay hold of Christ's purpose for his life. God desires to reveal His Son in Paul (Gal 1:6) . Paul desires a fuller apprehension of Christ, a fuller appropriation of Christ, and a fuller appreciation of Christ.

"Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended:" To have grasped completely. "but this one thing I do " , Paul had a singleness of purpose. Paul's life was summed up in 1:21 where he said, "for me to live is Christ" . Nothing could distract Paul and nothing could divert Paul from this one thing. "Forgetting those things which are behind " Both his old pre-Christian life and his previous progress as a Christian. Paul had no time for the past and scant attention for the present. The future goal claims all of his attention and all his efforts. It is good to forget all that hinders and to remember all that helps. "And reaching forth unto those things which are before," Paul was stretching himself out toward the goal, as a runner as he breaks down to the finish line, straning every nerve and muscle.

"I press towards the mark" Paul was constantly bearing down upon the goal. "For the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" Paul found no time to relax; he found someone worth living for. Everything else was a waste of time and energy. Note it is the high calling of God or the upward calling. It was a call from heaven and a call to heaven. It was a call to be like Christ and some day to be with Christ. Paul is in hot persuit of Christlikeness.

"LET US THEREFORE, AS MANY AS BE PERFECT, BE THUS MINDED" As many as are spiritually mature, full grown. this does NOT mean sinless perfection.

(Commentary borrowed from Edward R. Roustio, Th.D. [King James Bible Commentary] )

And I say Amen! :thumbs:

Phillipians 3 is nothing about gaining a thousand year reign with Christ. It is ALL about gaining perfection IN Jesus Christ! Praise God! Who will see it gets done! It is ALL about a hunger for Jesus, of how fellowship with Jesus can become fuller and fuller, never PERFECT, we must press towards the mark of perfection which will come at the ressurrection of the saints and not before.

You will NEVER be perfect in this life James. Your only hope of glory is in Christ alone, not in your wonderful works.

God Bless!

 

This have been debate about 'I never knew you'.

I would like to telling you something about this. The only way you shall be able to understand Matt. 7:23 better, you have to read throughout chapter 7 as context.

You should be aware of the context of Matthew chapter 7 is talking all about salvation. I don't have to type whole chapter 7 to you. But, I want to tell you something on few verses from chapter 7 which relate to verse 23.

Notice Matt. 7:13-14 telling us, there are two roads, every individuals of the world, included Christians have two choices, which road, they shall go enter into. Christ telling us, high percent of people make their choice go on the wide road, they want go on that road because of easy life and having pleasure life rather than facing hardship life, and do not want to follow Christ. They are on the way to destruction. Obivously, it speaks of leading them toward everlasting punishment shall be in the lake of fire - second death. Christ tells us, there is low percent of people go into narrow road, which leading toward eternal life. Because of few people are willing to face hardship life, suffering, giving up everything, follow Christ all the way to the end(Matt. 10:22; 24:13), then shall have victory-overcome. Sadly :tear: , this passage tells us the true fact that, high percent of people are on the way to hell. Even, also many religions included baptist are on the way to hell, because they make the choice rather to having easy life, than facing hardship, and not willing to giving up their old habits of sins. Few inidviduals are on the narrow road toward eternal life, because they already determined giving everything, facing hardship life, follow Christ 100% all the way throughout life till death(Matt. 10:22; 24:13; Rev. 2:10) shall have victory and overcome them. Christ tells us, there are FEW of them made it into eternal life. Sad. :tear:

Then, Christ explained us, WHY there are so many went into the wide road in Matthew 7:15-20. Christ tells us, we must be watch out for false teachers, pastors, religions, because they deceived people are on the way to hell. There are too many false religions out there. It easily make people into confusion, and misleading them by believing religions' lies. The only way that, we can know them, by examining their fruits, see if they have truly fruits. If we see any pastor have no fruit, for example - Benny Hinn. He is so wicked evangelist. He deceived thousands, and thousands of people for believing in him of lies.

So, when we get to Matt. 7:21. Christ explained to us, what will be happening in the Judgment Day, many religions included baptists shall say to the Lord that, they do many wonderful works for Him. But, Lord shall say to them, He doesn't know them, send them away into everlasting fire.

Obivously, this is the picture of judgment seat of Christ/great white throne at the Judgment Day. All people of the world, included dead people from all centuries shall be raised up, to face before Christ.

When, Christ shall say to them, 'I never knew you'. He doe not saying, "I never knew you, you depart from me, go into the fire for a thousand years, then you will come out and join with us for eternal life."

He shall saying to them, "depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Notice word, 'depart', which is refer to Matt. 25:41 says: "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

Christ does not saying to them, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into temporarily fire for a thousand years, prepard for the devil and his angels."

Christ clearly telling us, He shall say to them, depart from him, cast them away into eternal fire with devil and his angels. He never promise to them(goat) that, they shall be released out of the fire, and put them into eternal life with Christ on new earth.

Notice Matt. 25:46 says, "And these shall go AWAY into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT: but the righteous into life ETERNAL."

Christ doesn't saying, "these shall away into tmporarily punishment: but the righteous into life 1000 years."

Simple, Christ tells us, goat shall go into eternal punishment in the lake of fire. That's it. No guaranteed for a person shall be release out the fire beyond of this Judgment Day.

The picture of Matt. 7:21-23 show us, it is the Judgment day - judgment seat of Christ/great white throne on the last day of this present age.

There is no purgatory in the Bible. Sorry.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Steaver,

Amen! Well saying! :thumbs:

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!