Does God love everyone?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by annsni, Oct 19, 2008.

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  1. annsni

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    I was reading a blog where the woman was saying that God hates gays and they will never be saved.

    Then on a bulletin board, I hear a lot of the unsaved saying that God is love and He loves everybody.

    So does God love everyone? I know He hates sin but what about the sinners?
     
  2. Tom Butler

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    Maybe we ought to bring this question into play: What kind does God have for those who have never heard the gospel and never will?

    Or, what kind of love is it when God selected only the descendants of Abraham to reveal himself and establish a covenant relationship?

    When Jesus began his earthly ministry, and sent out his disciples, why did he tell them to go to Jews only, if he loved all the same way?

    It may seem that I'm suggesting an answer in my questions. But I'm not really. I actually have no clue why God caused me to be born in a part of the world where the gospel is preached, born into a family of inactive Baptists, which lived one block from a church, and brought me under the influence of godly men and women.

    While we may hold that God loves everyone without exception, it is obvious that he does not express that love in the same way to everybody.

    One may hold that God does, in fact, love everyone the same way, as expressed in his death on the cross for all. But that is of no benefit to those who never hear about it.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Obviously God places a special saving love on His elected individuals. We are "in the beloved" from eternity past based on His sovereign grace alone (although I'm pretty lovable myself :saint: )

    He has a generic love on all His creation, allowing rain to fall on the just and unjust alike. And His special saving love is not JUST for Jews, but also for the world (Gentiles) too. Praise His redeeming love.
     
  4. Marcia

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    How do we know they won't be saved? There are people who were gay, and became believers and gave up that lifestyle. I understand it is a struggle sometimes like the day to day struggle of an alcoholic, but how can anyone say that there are certain people who will never be saved? I'm sure that this person would have said this about me had she/he seen me before I was saved (I was not gay but I was into some really evil beliefs!

    Here is a site that states that God does hate some people:
    http://www.carm.org/uni/Godhates.htm
    God is love (1 John 4:8), but God also punishes the sinner and hates all who do iniquity. God is not one sided. He is not simply an infinitely loving God. He is also infinitely just. He must deal with sin. He must punish the sinner.
    In the truth of God's word, we find that the Lord has provided one way by which we may be saved. That single way is through Jesus' sacrifice. For all who trust in Him, salvation will come. But to those who turn away, God's wrath abides upon them: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him," (John 3:36).

    Does God hate anyone?
    Does God hate anyone? The answer is yes.
    • Psalm 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Thine eyes; Thou dost hate all who do iniquity,"
    • Psalm 11:5, "The Lord tests the righteous and the wicked, and the one who loves violence His soul hates."
    • Lev. 20:23, "Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I shall drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them." ___end excerpt​
     
  5. ktn4eg

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    Although I've mentioned this in some other thread, it bears mentioning again.

    Apparently there exists among some of my dear BB friends this concept that "'All' means 'All' means 'All' means 'All' means......"

    Although, in some generic sense that may be true, "All" doesn't ALWAYS mean "All without exception."

    Some times it may mean something else than "All without exception."

    I'll cite one rather obvious passage where "all" cannot possibly mean "all without exception":

    "Then went out to him [John the Baptist] Jerusalem, and all Judea, and all the region round Jordan, And were baptized of him [John the Baptist] confessing their sins." (Matthew 3:5-6)

    Now, if the two occurences of "all" in Matthew 5:3 mean "All without execption," why then did John the Baptist say what he did to the Pharisees and Sadducees in 3:7ff?

    I contend that there obviously are occurrences in the New Testament where the word "all" must have to mean something different than "All without execption."

    I stand more than willing to have my contention about the word "all" be thoroughly disproved by anyone who wishes to do so.
     
  6. preachinjesus

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    Yes, God loves everyone
     
  7. Rippon

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    How does He love those He hates?!
     
  8. Jim1999

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    It is something like, Jesus died for all, but instead of some......His death was efficacious for the elect, and the remainder are passed by to their own fate.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. Benjamin

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    Obviously, you must be a pretty special guy, to have been specially picked out like that. ;) :rolleyes:
     
  10. Benjamin

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    Agreed, and this comes from an Omnibenevolent God.
     
  11. ray Marshall

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    A simple "NO."
     
  12. ktn4eg

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    In what SPECIFIC way(s) does God love everyone?

    Let's examine one individiual with whom Jesus Christ had (humanly speaking) a more than passing acquaintance--Judas Iscariot.

    In both Matthew 26:24 and Mark 14:21 Jesus Christ specifically states regarding Judus Iscariot that , "...it had been good for that man if he had not been born," and "....good were it for that man if he had never been born."

    John 6:70-71 -- "Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve."

    John 17:9, 12 -- "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine....While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."

    So, my friend (and your are my friend) if, to use your own wording, "Yes, God loves everyone," please be kind enough to explain in detail (supplying specifc scriptures as I have done for you) just exactly the kind or degree or level of love that God not only had, but also openly demonstrated for Judas Iscariot.

    Blessings to you and yours, my brother in Christ and friend.
     
  13. Allan

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    Well, how about John 3:16
    "For God so loved 'the world' that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

    It states that God 'so loved' - "the world". His usage of the term 'world' here is not select group of people as some falsely assume because he speaks of 'whosoever' which is a universal term regarding anyone of everyone (many reformers acknowlege this - even J. Calvin). Also in speaking of mankind on the whole the term world, when used by John referencing men, is always the lost sinful unregenerate. We see this specifically when John emphsises the term 'world' with a definate adjective such as 'whole' (whole world).
    Everytime John uses the term 'whole world' it is in reference to sinfull and lost mankind. Not once ever in the entirety of scripture is the term 'world' used to describe God's people or the elect of God.

    This is qualified by statements such as 'be not of the world', 'you are not of the world my children', 'greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world', God has called us 'out of the world', 'the world sits in darkness... ect, ect,..

    So God loved all sinful and lost mankind in or after this manner - to send forth His Son that whoever among them would be believe He would save. Christ's came and died for them all otherwise God lied in John 3:16 that He so loved the world He sent His Son that whosoever (of the world) might be saved.

    I agree and believe that God has a different type of love (general and specific) for different people. One type of love (being general) is that He desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth (1 Tim 2:4[-6]). - and His general love is nothing less than the sending of His Son both 'to and for' all - the propitiating. However not all will be redeemed through the propitiation of Christ Jesus toward mankind because the propitiaion is rececieved only by faith.(Rom 3:25). - the purpose of propitaition fulfilled. I would note that even in Historical Reformed traditions and in their creeds (WCF), they affirm God's common love toward all mankind though not in the same manner I have spelled out. Theirs is more of life, common blessings or goodness from God.

    Since I'm sure you believe in His specific love I don't think I really need to elaborate on that subject.


    PLEASE NOTE: The point about John Calvin IS NOT that you or anyone else follows J. Calvin but just simply making a point about one, according to Reformers and present day Calvinists alike, whom they (in the majority) agree he knew well the Reformed doctrines.


    ..
     
    #13 Allan, Oct 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2008
  14. Rippon

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    Whoever among them would believe would be saved?Back to this whosoever busines again.It's not so nebulous and indefinite.Christ did not die for each and every peron who has,is,and shall live.He did not die for residents and future residents of perdition.The Lord does not love the denizens of that abode.

    Double-speak gushes forth from you once more.According to you Christ propitiated the wrath of His Father on behalf of every human being -- head-for-head.Yet this propitiation was not really a complete job since all are not redeemed.Hey -- Propitiation is the satisfaction of the Father's wrath against certain sinners -- namely the elect alone.The Lord did not appease His Father's anger for everyone only to send a majority to eternal torment anyway.Be biblical and more logical.
     
  15. Tom Butler

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    I still can't get past the question, if God loved all without exception, why did he withhold the gospel from so many?

    How can God desire that all come to repentance, yet make it impossible for them to do so by denying them the gospel?

    I have difficulty grasping the concept that Jesus is the light of the world (John 1:9 "..which lighteth every man that comes into the world"), yet, during Jesus' earthly ministry, millions and millions of people were shut off from that light--a light confined only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    I can figure out only two answers to those questions:
    1. God sent the gospel only to those whom he intended to save.
    2. God saves people independently of the gospel, or of any knowledge of Jesus the Christ.
     
  16. skypair

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    There's a better explanation, Bob. "God is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him."

    Remember the verse that tells us that the infant is sanctified by the believing parent? This is the clue we need here. Yes, God has a general love for all mankind but He is able to extend it best through believers -- through actual "boots on the ground!" :laugh: This is also why the church is to be removed, 2Thes 2:5-8. We're God's "boots on the ground" against the emergence of AC!

    But people that grow up in "elect" cultures and homes have increasingly better chances of being saved then those living where God has been rejected.

    skypair
     
  17. skypair

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    Perhaps better would be to explain what kind of love we are talking about. What is love?

    It is "wanting the very best for another!" God told Israel (but it applies to all) "I know the plans I have for you; plans for good and not for evil." Do you seriously think that God doesn't want the best for EVERY creature He has created? Do you really think that He doesn't give them myriad opportunities to acknowledge Him, glorify Him, and be thankful, Rom 1:21? Do you think that a "Judas" cannot be saved before he dies?? That Judas couldn't have refused the "sop," bowed down and repented to Jesus "on the spot" and that God and Jesus wished he would have (it was already told that he that took the sop would betray Jesus).

    But if you are going to "pile" your Calvinist stipulations on the the definition of "love," then I can see why God loving EVERYONE makes no sense to you.

    The other thing you should learn is that God is not willing to "impose" His love on any particular ones. He did that to Adam in the Garden of Eden but from that "imposition," Adam fell anyway! Love needs to be answered with love.

    skypair
     
    #17 skypair, Oct 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2008
  18. MB

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    There are instances where this is true no doubt but only in the minority of cases. It would seem that in every case where scripture is saying "all men" or the "whole world" Calvinist step up and claim that isn't true.
    Here is something that Calvainist will deny;
    Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
    This verse above doesn't say all but it does say that the Gentiles will hear it. Calvinist will then say this doesn't mean every single Gentile. Your arguement over the word "All" is futile at best. If you stay with scripture you'd have to deny total depravity.
    MB
     
  19. webdog

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    God's Truth has gone out to all men who have ever lived (Romans 1).
     
  20. webdog

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    There's nothing "generic" whatsoever about any aspect of God's love. John 3:16 clearly shows there is no generic love involved in sending His Son to atone for sin for the world.
     
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