Does God Love the Sinner But Hate The Sin?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by The Archangel, Jul 30, 2013.

  1. The Archangel

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  2. gb93433

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    Is sin able to be separated from the sinner?
     
  3. Skandelon

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    I think this has more to do with how one understands the concept of "hate" as used in the scripture. If one is "under wrath/law" they might be considered 'hated' because they have not come under Grace (i.e. love) of the Father through faith. That doesn't mean God doesn't care for them, or have affection for them, or doesn't want better for them as those created in His Own image.

    Scripture is clear that he loves people and desires all to come to repentance. He does not desire the perishing of anyone. He loves mankind with a kind of love we cannot even begin to understand.
     
  4. The Biblicist

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    By God's grace through the regenerative power, indwelling power and glorifying power only.
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    wrong thread
     
    #5 The Biblicist, Jul 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 30, 2013
  6. Skandelon

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    I'm not sure how this response relates to my post? You will need to connect the dots for me. I was speaking about wrath/hatred and Grace/love of God...not sure what you are talking about?
     
  7. The Biblicist

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    Ahhh! For some reason my glasses need cleaning as I posted to the wrong thread. My mistake!
     
  8. Skandelon

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    I thought that may have been what happened, but just wanted to be sure. :thumbs:
     
  9. DrJamesAch

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    A clear example of the contrast of love and hate is in the story of Rachel and Leah.

    " And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the Lord saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren." Genesis 29:30-31. Rachel being LOVED MORE is in direct contrast to Leah being HATED. Jacob loved Rachel MORE than he loved Leah and sometimes in the Bible hate is used in contrast to being loved LESS, and not in the context of anger and disposition toward destruction.

    This same concept is also shown in Luke 14:26:

    "If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple."

    Did Jesus imply that we are to hate and despise our parents? That would be a conflict with Ephesians 6:1-2. Our we suppose to hate ourselves? That would be a conflict with Ephesians 5:29,

    "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church".

    So then obviously "hate" often has a different context and meaning then that which is presumed by determinist theology (such as erroneous interpretations of God loving Jacob and hating Esau in Romans 9).

    What if a man had a choice to save his wife or a bus full of children? A man's wife gets in an accident with a bus, both the bus and his wife's car are on fire. The children on the bus can escape if the husband simply unlocks the back door, but in doing so, his wife's car will explode. But if he takes the time to get his wife out of the seat belt, the children will all be burned alive. So the husband chooses to save the bus full of children and reluctantly does not spare his wife.

    Obviously, the husband loved his wife MORE than a bus full of children he never knew. But did his actions show that he HATED his wife because he chose to save someone that he LOVED LESS? God did not spare His Son to save those that He obviously loves less than His own Son. Those who would challenge this would have to ignore the contrast that Christ Himself gave of the difference in Luke 14:26.

    Nevertheless, love of any kind, whether more or less, can not by its own intrinsic quality and definition want and desire the harm and condemnation of another and by example sometimes love is demonstrated by sacrificing to another in which we love less. Love does not nearly seek the good of another, but the ULTIMATE good of another. Love that merely gives rain on the garden of the unjust but then "passes over" that person to his condemnation is only a temporary gratuity, but is not a demonstration of ultimate love. One may permit the temporary suffering to bring forth a greater flourishing, but that does not imply that even the suffering was desired and certainly does not have in mind that the suffering be permanent. Such a want and desire of the suffering and condemnation of another is the ultimate form of hatred of which is the motive that God condemns (1 John 3:15, Matthew 5:43-48) and it is certainly an egregious error to ascribe to God what He expects otherwise of His own children and for which He even holds unbelievers accountable for (Revelation 21:8).
     
  10. Skandelon

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    That is a very good explanation James. Hatred sometimes connotes more a choice between someone being used for a 'noble purpose' (Jacob) and and 'common one.' (Esau) And it doesn't necessarily mean one is condemned and the other is not.

    Paul addresses this later in Romans 9 when he speaks of Israel as a lump of clay. Some from Israel, like himself, were molded for the noble purpose of apostleship. Others from Israel were molded for the common purpose of being 'cut off' or 'hardened' in rebellion (which was used by God to bring about the crucifixion). Is God just in doing so? That is the very question Paul is actually addressing in Romans 9.

    But what Calvinists don't seem to see is that the very same individuals chosen for the common purpose of hardening and being 'cut off' might be provoked to envy, and leave their unbelief to be saved (Rm. 11:14ff). Now, if those 'hardened' supposedly represent the non-elect reprobate that have been cut off from birth to a certain destruction, why would Paul have hope of their being provoked by envy and saved? Why would he say, "God has bound all men over to disobedience so as to have mercy on them all?" (Rm 11:32)
     
  11. gb93433

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    That is a tell tale sign of aging.
     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    Does God Love the Sinner But Hate The Sin?

    ummmm, lem'see, does the alcoholic like getting drunk but hate the alcohol ? or love the alcohol but hate getting drunk ?
     
  13. Judith

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    That understanding of God loving the sinner is not taken directly from any biblical passage. God hates the sinner according to Psalms. He loved the world so He gave His Son, but I know of no passage that says He loves the sinner. He hates both the sin and the sinner, but His love reached out to those who He hates. God is love and He does show us His love while we are still sinners. We are to do the same thing with sinners.
     

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