Does God make mistakes these days?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Eliyahu, Aug 17, 2007.

  1. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
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    I don't want to make this a lengthy debate, but want to know how you interpret this type of disaster which may be called Acts of God.

    Moreover, my heart goes to those families of the victims.

    Among the 450 dead, more than 60 were from this single Catholic church in Peru because of the Quake.

    Some years ago, a Catholic church along with the statue of Mary in New Brunswick was hit by the Lightening and the 119 year old, Catholic church was burnt down.

    Why does it happen to the Holy Catholic Church? Did God make some error in hiting the targets?

    How do the Catholic or Pro-Catholics interpret this situation?

    Do those Catholic Churches have nothing to do with the God who has the power to control the Lightening, Quake, and Tsunami etc?

    Of course, this type of disasters may happen to the Protestant churches, though it may be much seldom in frequency.

    How would you interpret and accept this kind of situation?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/17/world/americas/17peru.html?th&emc=th

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/08/17/peru.earthquake/index.html


    Did they have the right faith? Can this kind of Disaster happen to you and to any of true believers?


    God is terrible indeed, right? ( Psalm 47:2)
     
    #1 Eliyahu, Aug 17, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2007
  2. Mr.M

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    This is a goofy question other than opening up a door for biblically ignorant people to inject bad ideas.
     
  3. 4His_glory

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    Sigh...

    I hestitate to respond to this but I find the opening post very disturbing. Especially since I minister in a tradicionaly Catholic country.
    There is a unhealthy trend in Christianity to persume to know the mind of God when tragedy happens. I rcall this happened with hurricane Katrina struck N.O.

    Why do we in arrogance persume to know God´s reasons for allowing things to happen? The only thing that we know is that everything happens to praise of God´s glory and this side of heaven we will never know the details.

    If I were to take the postion of the O.P. here, I would anger the very people I want to befriend and share the Gospel with. Catholics or any other person for that matter does not need us attacking their doctrines and trying to expose the error of their theology. They do not need us displaying a "warful" attitude towards them. I love them to much for that and the Gospel is to precious to be wraped in self-righteousness. We are all sinners and need Christ more than we really think we do. Just preach the pure Gospel of Christ and let God graciously work in hearts and draw sinners unto Himself.

    This earthquake has nothing to do with Catholicism. Lets not assume that it does. Instead let us pray for the hurting peruvianos and pray to God to use this situation to bring the most glory to himself.

    Chau.
     
    #3 4His_glory, Aug 17, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2007
  4. Andy T.

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    1 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, “Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.”

    Luke 13:1-5
     
  5. Agnus_Dei

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    If it's not Pres. Bush's fault why not call it the Catholic's fault...
     
  6. donnA

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    God makes no mistakes, period.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    I am just as opposed to the doctrinal errors of the RCC as the next guy - and that includes opposing the RC torment and slaughter of the saints during the dark ages.

    But I find it hard to believe that "dozens of Catholics" kiolled in a church at mass where an earthquake strikes and kills 437 citizens of all types -- is a sign that God is singling out the RCC for judgment.

    In fact it is also true that it was a Sunday worship service timing selected by Japan to bomb Pearl Harbor. I have to think that some Christians of all stripes got killed that Sunday.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. Eliyahu

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    Sigh to read your post. God never makes mistakes. There is always the providence of God, and there is the message from God. If you don't realize it, you are spiritually blind. I hope you are not the hostage there by the Catholics. Cathrina struck the region of Gambling, Catholic dominated area.

    So, are you admitting that even this happened to praise God ? Then it means the destruction of the idolatry shrine of Catholic is for the praise of God, right?

    As for the tragedy itself, we need to comfort the residents there, but my point was about the shrine of the Idol worshippers, Catholic Cathedral where the people gathered together for the Mass! Why didn't God postpone the timing ?

    Doesn't any reasonable believer think how it could happen to the Mass of their Holy Catholic church?

    Earthquake is absolutely divine act. No one can be guilty about it. God never makes mistakes. No disaster like that in the world can happen without the involvement of God. If Catholic claims that they are truly God's people, how can they explain this incident where the Quake struck exactly the people at the Mass? The city may have more than 100,000 but among the dead, mainly the Catholic people in the Mass were killed.
    If the Holy Papa is the agent of Christ, the Almighty God, who is omni-scient, omni-present, omni-potent, why didn't he know about the Quake in advance and notify the Cathedral in advance?

    I wonder what kind of truth you are preaching there.
     
  9. Eliyahu

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    You and Andy must distinguish between Human Disaster and ACts of God.

    If anyone, any human being, selected any specific day or any specific target, then we cannot imagine any linkage between the disaster and God.

    For example, if any terrorist attacked Catholic Cathedral and killed many people there due to his hatred, then we cannot and should not link the problem with God. Such criminal must be condemned. However, in this case, should God be condemned ?

    They are totally different.
     
    #9 Eliyahu, Aug 17, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2007
  10. Eliyahu

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    Though he was converted from Episcopalian to Methodist following his wife, he is basically grown up in Episcopalian which is a Catholic.

    COE was invented by Henry VIII so that he may divorce and remarry, but the doctrines of COE is not very much different from RCC except the headship of Pope. Episcopalian is the US version of COE and they call themselves as Catholic.

    That's why he is full of Catholic minds when he said " we go on the Crusade into Afghanistan" in 2001, and when he said in London " we worship the same God, among Islam, Christian, etc. why do we fight each other?" then he appointed 2 Catholics to the Supreme Court Judges.

    In his mind, Catholics, COE, Orthodox, Episcopalian, Presbyterian are the same Christians, but he may think that the fundamental Baptists or Brethren are the cults.

    This is how you can understand his mentality.
     
    #10 Eliyahu, Aug 17, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2007
  11. Eliyahu

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  12. Darron Steele

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    Oh great, just what we need, another Catholic bashing thread. :BangHead:
    Titus 3:8b-9a “I desire that thou affirm confidently, to the end that they who have believed God may be careful to maintain good |deeds|. These things are good and profitable unto men: but shun foolish questionings, and genealogies, and strifes, and fightings about law; for they are unprofitable” (ASV|NLT 1996, RSV 1952|ASV).​
    Any dispute having nothing to do with "good deeds" is "unprofitable." I would think that using such disputes as excuses to be uncharitable compounds the wrong.

    I wish more people who claim to serve the Lord realized that they have better things to do than express their bad feelings about Catholicism.

    As for the Scripturalness of the opening post, I am with Andy:
    Semantics games aside about unforeseeable disasters being called "acts of God" in our culture, I think we ought to stick with the warning of this passage.

    When we take someone's calamity and use it for self-exaltation at the expense of others, we are `skating on thin ice.'
     
  13. BobRyan

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    The world-wide flood of Gen 7 was "An act of God"

    The destruction of Soddom and Gomorrah in Genesis was "an act of God"

    The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad "an act of God"

    The 7 last plagues of Rev 16 "an act of God"

    There are "Acts of God" in human history with more on the way that are directed as punishment - no question about it.

    But every earthquake that kills Christians - both Catholic and non-Catholic -- is that an act of God against Christians?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. 4His_glory

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    Thats right God absolutly never makes a mistake. If He did he would not be the perfect God Who He is.

    If you take my word out of context then I suppose you could say that. But notice I said that we do not know why God allowed this to happen. He has a purpose, but it is not our duty to know that purpose per se, other than the truth that everything, yes even tragedy, God uses for His glory.
    To suggest that God did this because the people were Catholic is to assume some knowledge that we don't have. That is the same thing of which Job was guilty.

    Now you are confusing me. Did you not just say that God makes mistakes? I agree with the above statement. God never makes mistakes.

    They can´t explain just as you and I can not undertand why God specifically allowed this to happen.

    So when a Baptist pastor and his family die in a tragic car accident, or a tornado destroyes their house, why didn´t God warn them if they were really God´s people? Do you see the problem with this kind of reasoning?

    So now you question my salvation? If I am preaching another Gospel I am not saved if I understand my Bible correctly. I would caution you to think before you make such judgments.

    For the record. I do not agree with the fallacies of Catholic theology, I do beleive that all have sinned and that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
    I just don´t see where bashing Catholics is part of preaching the Gospel of Christ. A sinner is a sinner no matter what religion they practice. We all need Christ more than we really think we do.
    I don´t have the time to argue with you about this, but my heart was burdened for you. I trust that you truly desire to see everyone including Catholics come to a saving relationship with Christ, but your attitude towards them that I am seeing is not one of love.
     
  15. 4His_glory

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    Double post sorry.
     
  16. Eliyahu

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    Indeed, we sometimes do not know what the intention of God is.
    But have you read that Jesus said this?

    Luke 13:3
    I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish

    Do you preach the Repentance like Him?

    I was not indicating the whole community, but as you can see, 60 out
    of 500 victims were from the single Catholic Cathederal. That is totally different from Job's trial. Did Job die immediately?
    How is the difference betwen this case and Sodom and Gomorrah?
    Was Abraham injured or hurt during the Catastrophe?

    Where did I say that God makes mistakes?

    You are creating the confusions and false statements!
    Show Me the statements!

    I doubt about your capacity to understand the English sentences.

    God never makes mistakes !

    The God who never makes mistakes struck the Holy Catholic Church building. Don't they get the message?
    Don't you like to preach the Repentance as Jesus did ?

    Let's say the average people and/or the overall catastrophes are related to complicated human disaster, but what I pointed out was the very Cathedral where the people were performing the Mass.
    Still, don't you get the message of Repentance ?


    Traffic Accidents are different from the Acts of God. They are human disasters caused by many factors and the innocent believers can become the victims of the drunken drivers. I never addressed that kind of accidents to point out the problems with any religion.
    In case of Tornado, the victims may have lost the property. In that case it applies to Job's trial. If the person died due to the Acts of God, then it would apply to the same question. Even in such case, it is a matter of Repentance.

    I would kindly advise you to read all the statements carefully, rather than responding to them irrationally and hastely.
    Where did I say I doubt about your salvation?
    I wondered what kind of truth you are preaching !
    I asked such questions because I noticed many are wasting their time preaching the wrong doctrines even though they are truly saved.

    Are you preaching the Gospel and the Repentance from the Idolatry there?

    I do have 2 friends preaching the Gospel in Catholic countries, one in Argentine and the other in Ireland. They deplore idolatry and vain deception by the Catholics even though they don't condemn them publicly. They share the same opinion with me and I have had no problem in talking with them at all. They don't condone the idolatry there.
    Are you preaching the Gospel like this man ?

    Acts 17
    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


    Very Good. Hope you notice Catholics believe in the Grace+ Works.

    Are you trying to survive in the Catholic countries by assimilating yourself with them, or are you trying to be "the Salt and Light " there?
    Of course I am not asking you to fight the fleshly fight publicly, but if you are boldy preaching the Gospel of truth and discern the problems of the Catholic idolatry, you wouldn't have argued about my post.

    Yes, indeed I wish everyone including Catholics truly comes to the Lord, departing the Idolatry and repenting all the sins. Condoning the Idolatry and the goddess worship is not the love that God taught me. I am not asking you to fight the foolish fight but believe you have to be wise in all matters, as condoning them is not right.
     
    #16 Eliyahu, Aug 18, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2007
  17. Eliyahu

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    Where were the True Christian killed by the Acts of God?

    Were there any true Christians when Pompei was covered by Volcano?

    Then you are denying the divine protection as shown to Lot during the Catastrphe to Sodom and Gomorrah.

    I trust that God would not allow such divine accidents to the truly repented believers.

    I have never heard about any True believers killed by the natural disasters, so-called Acts of God.
     
  18. BobRyan

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    In the flood - many infants died -- many children under the age of accountability. The same is true in Soddom and Gomorrah

    In the capture of Israel by Babylon Daniel is taken as a slave and his family slaughtered. One can not doubt that children and infants died in that horrible event. Yet this was explicitly God punishing Israel.

    Rome has Israel subjugated - yet it is under Rome that infants in Bethlehem are slaughtered.

    Is it your claim that in the major earthquakes, floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, volcanoes of history -- no Christian died?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. Eliyahu

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    [FONT=&#44404]As long as the person believeth in Jesus and is born again truly by Holy Spirit, then follow the Holy Spirit, he or she will not be struck by the Acts of God.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&#44404]Read the following verses:[/FONT]

    Romans 8:1
    There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


    [FONT=&#44404]Can you believe these words of God?[/FONT]


    [FONT=&#44404]Matthew 10:[/FONT]

    29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

    Luke 12: 6
    Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? 7 But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows

    Luke 21

    18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish. ( Bible verses are from crosswalk.com)

    All disasters are related to the sins, and even in the case of Job, eventually he repented about his sins in sack clothes on the ashes.( JOb 42:6)

    Are the people in the country of more than 90% Holy Catholic repenting about their sins? Or are they looting ?

    Are the churches preach the repentance on this occasion?

    But please remember this, it is not common that the whole members of any so-called church are killed by the Acts of God. Have this kind of natural tragedy often happened to the Roman Catholic churches in the past? Then it is horrible reliegion !

    Isn't it a very much unusual accident ?




    Even an individual who is faithful, even if he or she belongs to the same church group, would have been guided by the Holy Spirit, not to attend the Mass on that specific day, either due to illness or due to some other business, as Lot and his family were singled out to be brought out of Sodom and Gomorrah.

    I trust in God.
     
    #19 Eliyahu, Aug 20, 2007
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2007
  20. Dustin

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    I disagree with you on that one. Does God only control the temporal punishments of followers of a false religion, or does He, in fact, control everything? Does He leave the driving to us (or them, even)? I don't see how a traffic accident is any less an Act of God than a hurricane or an earthquake. If you're consistant, all things that happen, happen because it is God's Will that they happen, or, it wouldn't have happened.


    That's all I have to say.

    Soli Deo Gloria,
    Dustin
     

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