Does God react, relent or change in response to man?

I was meaning "either I'm right" (God doesn't change) or God does change(I'm wrong). I'm not sure of any other options.

Read my post 36

 

Well, I'll be the first to admit that we're into some pretty deep territory, particularly trying to divine the mind of God.

Let me offer another alternative. What if God had decreed that he would act in a certain way IF someone asked in prayer? That the prayer would be the trigger to what God intended to do? Now, that opens up more questions.

One, what if Hezekiah had not prayed? He would have died, in my opinion.
But, the omniscient God also knew that Hezekiah would pray, he would answer Hezekiah's prayer, and give him 15 more years.

And, God's warning to Hezekiah that he would die triggered the prayer.

Just some thoughts.

 

Tom,
That presumes that God also knew there were times when He would have a certain thing in mind, and that He would change His mind (the many times we see "God repented").

I understand what you're saying about Hezekiah and God setting things up so that Hezekiah would pray and give Him the opportunity to show His glory; but you're going to have to dig deep and explain God setting things up so that He would change His mind. I believe it's possible, because with God all things are possible; just gonna have to work on the explanation.

 

You're right, the explanation is elusive. I'm convinced there is one, and we just haven't thought of it. And I don't think it is as simple as God's reacting to a prayer. As long as we have an immutable, omniscient God that view won't float for me.

 

Here is my best answer.

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen. (Romans 11:33-36)

 

No way of us knowing how He interacts with man within and outside of time so my answer is "I don't know". I will say even if He knew, how could there be "additional" years to something already decreed?

 

Why do you not know? Do you believe God is omniscient?

 

Of course I do. I believe even in His omniscience and omnipotence He can, if He so desires, to not use His omnisceince as is evidenced by Christ not knowing the day or the hour of His return (while remaining 100% divine and omniscient.

The fact is none of us know. We can all speculate or use our finite understanding which is bound by space, time and our limited mental faculties to describe how God interacts with His creation, but it is just that...speculation.

We are given immutable truth from the Lord's own perspective in the Hezekiah story that on the surface seems to raise questions about God's omniscience, but since we know that He is, there must be some tension we don't understand.

Facts:
God told Isaiah to deliver the message Hez was going to die. God wasn't kidding, testing Hez, or lying. He stated a fact.
Isaiah delivered this truth.
Hez cried out to God
God heard his prayer (God's own words) and granted "additional" years to Hez.

If God didn't change His mind, he lied to Hezekiah and told Isaiah to lie. There is nothing in the text that would lead us to believe we are supposed to read into the text God said this knowing Hez was going to pray, and it was God's intention all along to grant these "additional" (which would not be additional if they were already worked into Hez's lifespan) years of life. Even if this were the case, God would have lied to Hez to garner a response.

 

We do know. The Bible tells us that God 1) doesn't change 2) Doesn't change his mind(I Samuel 15:29 ) 3) is omniscient.

Not at all. I already explained this in my previous post. Go back and read it again and I think you will understand.

There is the entire Bible. We are to interpret the entire Bible.

God told Isaiah to tell Hezekiah that he was going to die. This is true. If God didn't do anything(heal) Hezekiah would have died. Of course God knew that he was going to heal him and add additional years.(to deny this is to deny the omniscience of God) After Hezekiah prayed, God said he would give him the 15 additional years. (something God already knew about, unless you are going to deny the omniscience of God.)

 

...this is all in relation to mankind. God doesn't change like man does...God doesn't change His mind as man does. This needs to be kept in context.

I read it again, and I don't see how it's any different in all honesty. If He knew Hez was going to pray and that He was going to grant him additional (this word in itself presents problems to this theory) years...He still did not tell Hez the truth knowing what He knew. Dishonesty is dishonesty.

If God knew He was going to heal Him, then God knew Hez didn't really need to get his home in order as he was not going to really die...but still told him just that. That is a lie, plain and simple.

I already said I don't deny God's omniscience, but our feeble minds cannot understand God's omniscience. To state we can puts us on par with God's knowledge, and I'm not going to do that. It's easy to dismiss it using "omniscience", but the problem is we are using OUR understanding of the term.

 

so then you are saying that God didn't know that He was going to give thim the 15 years?

Then you deny that God knows everything

You just did. You said that God didn't know that He was going to give the extra 15 years by healing Hezekiah. It's pretty simple. Either you know everything or you don't

The term is pretty simple. Does God know everything or not? Did God know that He was going to give the 15 years or not?

 

I'm saying we don't know how God chooses to sovereignly act and interact with man in and outside of time.

You are not following. It is a paradox as is plainly seen by Christ who is fully God and omniscient not knowing when He will return. Do you deny this even though Christ Himself said it? How does this fit into your understanding of omniscience?

In OUR understanding of knowledge, you would be correct. I've been trying to say OUR feeble minds cannot wrap around this clear paradox even though Scripture shows it exists.

So we conform God to our simple terms we can understand? You are comfortable doing that? I'm not and will continue to see the tension given to us in Scripture.

 

It just a simple matter than you are denying that God knows all. I'm not conforming God to anything. I'm only look at it as Scripture teaches. It teaches that God knows all. You either believe it(God knew of the 15 years) or you don't believe it(God didn't know about the 15 years).

And I never said I understood it. I'm just saying that God knew about the 15 additional years.

 

Of course He didn't express Himself as if He knew that.

Because We have all the Scripture. We know that God knows everything from beginning to the end. He knows what we are going to ask or pray before we pray.

I'm taking God at his word that He knows everything. God has all knowledge. If you learn something, you didn't have all knowledge. (or at least didn't before you learned the new thing)

My point is simply this. God knew of the 15 years just as he knows everything that is going to happen.

 

Well, Brother, you only should be given a "2/3" post for this one. In all of the others, you gave three tumbs, but on this one, you only gave two.

"Hey, to the one who gives the post counts, can you give Bro. Quantum a "2/3" count for this instead of a "one" for this one???.....just kidding, Brother!!

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

 

How come you have not addressed Christ (God, omniscient) not knowing the time or day of His return? You are talking past me and not taking in what I am saying.

 

God speaks thru human authors in a way we understand.Hank....it looks as if you are bringing God down to human level when you say this.