Does God Turn Any Of His Children Over To A Reprobate Mind?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by tyndale1946, Sep 4, 2003.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I asked the authors permission to borrow this from another Primitive Baptist site as I thought this was a good question and would generate a good discussion and I give Brother Latimer all the credit. So what are your thoughts and comments on his question?... Brother Glen [​IMG]

    Can a child of God reach a certain point of rebelliousness against God beyond which there is a "point of no return?" Can a child of God reach a point of sinfulness beyond which there is no hope of repentance here in time? Can a child of God lose His relationship with God to the point that there is no hope of restoring it here in time? Does God turn any of His children over to a reprobate mind?

    If so, then God forsakes His children here in time. God has promised to never forsake His children. God may seem to withdraw from His children occasionally, but He never forsakes them in time or eternity. Is God faithful only to the faithful children of God?
    If so, then God denies the Spirit that dwells within each child of God. The children of God are the temple of God and the Spirit dwells within them. What is the purpose or benefit of the Spirit dwelling within a child of God who has been turned over to a reprobate mind? Is the indwelling of the Spirit meaningful only for the faithful children of God here in time?
    If so, then God genders a spirit of fear in some of His children rather than a spirit of love. Perfect love casteth out fear. God’s love is perfect. Is God’s perfect love manifest only to the faithful children of God here in time?
    If so, then God denies chastisement to some of His children (for the rest of their lives). Those that are without chastisement are bastards and not sons. Is chastisement only for the faithful children of God?
    If so, then God takes away hope from some of His children (the hope of finding repentance for a child of God caught up in sin). What if a child of God thinks he has been turned over to a reprobate mind, but in actuality he hasn’t? If a child of God thinks he might have passed a point of no return with God, what’s to motivate him to continue striving against sin? Why even try to resist temptations anymore? Why continue trying to pray? Why go to church anymore? If there is no hope of ever finding himself in the good graces of God here in time, why try anymore? Is hope only for the faithful children of God?
    If so, then God denies a way of escape from temptations for some of His children. If so, then God puts on some of His children more than they can bear. God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it. Is the way of escape only for the faithful children of God?
    If God turns any of His children over to a reprobate mind, then some of God’s children DO NOT have a way to escape temptations! If God turns any of His children over to a reprobate mind, then God has to break some of His promises to His children!

    Just some thoughts. I welcome yours.

    ICL, Glenn E. Latimer

    Stockbridge, GA
     
  2. Yelsew

    Yelsew
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    The author does not seem to have even a basic understanding of God's created man.

    The spirit of man is not something that gets added on to each man that God "elects" to save. The Human spirit is conceived in the womb along with the human flesh. The infant is born a spirit in a body of flesh. Scriptures tell us it is the spirit that is the life of the flesh. It is the spirit that rebels against God, because it is the spirit that controls the flesh. It is the human spirit that Jesus came to seek and to save. It is the spirit that gets born again, the flesh is not capable of being born twice, but the spirit is.

    Does God give man over to his reprobate mind? Emphatically, YES! In Genesis, where man had long life, God became concerned that long life was producing in man a completed sin state, so he shortened the life span of man from nearly a millenium to just over a century. Even that did not stop man from being sinful, so he gave them over to their sinful reprobate minds and in the case of Sodom and Gomorrah, destroyed them as an example of his wrath against sinfulness.

    Do not overlook Jesus words in the parables, especially 'the sower', and 'the one shall be taken...'. There are many more examples where God allows man to have dominion over himself.

    Jesus never forsakes those who have faith in him, and having faith as such are his "brothers", adopted by the Father in heaven as His children. But Jesus does not work with those who refuse to have faith in Him, and He does not save those who do not have faith.

    So, the answer to your question is Yes God does abandon man to his own reprobate mind!

    [ September 05, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  3. Me2

    Me2
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    God allows his children to choose sin and to be controlled by satan's influences.

    its the believer who becomes "reprobate" by "choosing" sin. the scriptures mentioned previously referrs to "renewing of the mind". not the spirit.

    the mindset is what is being challenged here. Old thoughts that are based after a carnal lifestyle that must be brought up in the light of the truth of God..

    we continue to sin after we have been imparted with Gods spirit because our minds are weak as to relying by faith on the truths or methodolgies that God offers the believer. we are taught wisdom and when the wisdom is tried. we again choose our old methods and comforts of an old cursed lifestyle.

    afterwards the believer is "handed over to satan".

    Gods wrath could be expressed to such a reprobate believer as God offering mercy and forgiveness to them in their state of rebellion against him.
    when the reprobate believers are really desiring to be judged and found innocent based on their own works and not Jesus works alone.

    a "methodology and vision of God" that only they can imagine in their state of confusion.
    the old mindset of an imaginary god wanting to remain in control.


    simply stated is that a reprobate mind is one that refuses to accept truth as God gives to them.


    we have received new spirits with a new faith.

    faith is not a product of the soul.

    or else God in the end could say that any mental choices we made were influenced by our own carnal thinking.

    when we possessed our old cursed spirit or the spirit of carnal man. it had a nature that only allowed us the choices that it existed within.
    we can say its "faith" only allowed us to act and react in a certain manner.
    when we are born again. we receive a new spirit which contains a new set of "faith" choices.

    the human soul contains no faith.
    its a "property or attribute" of the spirit.
    it is a nature that only allows the holder to choose certain parameters of acceptable choices.

    we say that Jesus Christ spirit is within the believer and it is HIS faith within us that we live by or through. not our own carnal reasonings.
    "it is ALL of christ, and NONE of me."

    Me2
     
  4. Frogman

    Frogman
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    Yelsew,
    The question is whether God will turn believers over to a reprobate mind. In reality, "man" is already in possession of a reprobate mind and this mind must be changed. The problem is not whether man is ever turned over as such, but is the believer ever turned over. We cannot classify believers with the whole of mankind.

    What about Saul?

    I believe God does at times turn rebellious children over to a reprobate mind.

    Brother Dallas
     
  5. Yelsew

    Yelsew
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    Lucifer, the angel of light was "intimate" with God, probably what we would call a "holy angel", Yet he chose to sin against God, to rise up and attempt to usurp the very Throne of God. Do you think, as a believer in God coming from the position of born with a sin nature, that you have a higher position than Lucifer had when He sinned?
    After all Lucifer was made pure and holy, even so, in his purity, he chose to sin against God. Maybe he was not one of God's "elect" angels. The fact that we come from a sin nature is a powerful influence even after we are "renewed in spirit" by believing in Jesus. If it was easy enough for a divine created being to sin, think of what it is for lowly man to sin.

    That is why it is paramount that we adopt the role of confesser of sins, we are quite simply already "enabled" to sin. So we must struggle to defeat sin in our own lives and the only way to be successful is through confession and repentance.

    Again, this is a factor of our faith, with faith we confess our sins and repent from those sins. But so long as we are human and in the flesh, we will have a "predisposition" to sin. It is only through the power of confession that we can receive any power to repent, and it is only in repentance that we can be washed whiter than snow.

    Interestingly, it is through repentance that we can claim renewal of spirit. For the unrepentant there is no evidence of renewal.
     
  6. Frogman

    Frogman
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    The deep and melancholy ponderings of the eternal nature of Lucifer...fascinating. Lucifer was a created being, he was created, he was created, he was created, therefore he possessed the ability to sin. Man is a created being, is a created being, is a created being, therefore he possessed the ability to sin.

    Nothing is renewed by the power of any created being, no-thing, no-thing. All power of renewal [ regeneration, quickening, redemption ] rests in Christ, the Son of God, who is not a created being, not a created being, not a created being.

    Step out from under the shadow of man and warm yourself in the glow of the Glory of God and His righteousness Jesus Christ and you will find that these things are not as difficult as your system outlines. The Comforter is to take of what is that of Christ's and teach His people, but He Will Not [ not can not ] do this when His people see only themselves, only their faith, only their repentance, only their fasting. :(

    Do this so that you don't have to find yourself in agreement with Job, for Satan is not only walking to and fro and up and down in the earth seeking whom he may devour, but at present he also is gathering with the Sons of God before His Throne to make accusations against the people of God. [​IMG]


    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  7. Yelsew

    Yelsew
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    And who do you suppose I mean one is to have faith in? Yes, it is God! Father and Son and Holy Spirit!

    I have posted NOTHING that indicates man can do anything outside of what GOD demands of man. That is to have faith! Faith is the only thing that man can have that effects and affects his Salvation.

    God did all the work, but if we do not believe, that is, have faith then we will not accept what God has already done for us, and we will not receive the free gift of salvation.

    SALVATION DEMANDS THAT ONE HAVE FAITH IN THE SAVIOR! God does not save those without FAITH!

    Even God's chosen people the Jews, who rejected the Messiah the first time around, and whom scriptures declares will all be saved, will be saved by their subsequent faith in God! Their presently hardened hearts will be softened and they will believe!
     
  8. Frogman

    Frogman
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    The Jew has always possessed faith in God, it is not something that will be imparted to them. They have always served the true and living God. It is the conversion of Israel to believe Jesus to be the Messiah, the one anointed of God to combine the priesthood and the sacrifice. this is now the error of the Jews collectively, and not that they do not believe in God.

    If you will read Romans 1 you will find that the context is speaking of those who hold the truth in unrighteousness, nowhere does it say they have lost any measure of faith which they possessed, but only they hold the truth in unrighteousness. These are then saved children of God, those knowing their position in Christ, who yet "hold" [hinder] the truth by their unrighteousness.

    That is who Romans 1 is speaking of being turned over to a Reprobate mind, it is simple.

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Frogman

    Frogman
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    You bought everything Bro. Bill sold didn't ya.
     
  10. Yelsew

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    EXCUUUUUUUUUUSE ME? Whatever Bro. Bill has is priceless, and therefore not for sale. I am poor and could not afford it anyway!

    I can see though that you buy nothing but Calvinist Doctrine.
     
  11. Frogman

    Frogman
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    No, I am no longer a Calvinist. This is true because I can no longer see what the Calvinist sees and this because I was led of the Spirit to search the Scripture and see for myself how eternal life is reckoned to the believer.

    In truth the kind of discussion bro. Bill did was interesting speculation IMHO and was worthless. In considering it I view it as hyper-dispensationalism worse than myself being called a brider because it failed to make a distinction among the obedient child and the disobedient, but rather categorizes salvation into two ways when there is but one way.

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
  12. Yelsew

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    And what do you say that one way is?
     

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