Does God use Satan and his demons for his purposes?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Feb 25, 2007.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I don't quite understand this. Look at this passage here:

    Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
    Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
    Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
    Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
    Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
    Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
    Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
    Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    The tormentors are the demons.
    There is also another passage in the bible where Paul talks about handing a christian over to Satan for the desruction of the flesh!
    But why? This sounds as if Satan and his demons are simply dumb servants which do exactly what God wants them to do. Why is this? Shouldn't they do exactly the opposite of what God expects them to do? Let's say God wants to use Satan to destroy the flesh of a person then why doesn't Satan refuse to? Why does Satan carry out God's plan? Is Satan forced to or is he too dumb to realize that by doing this he is doing God's will? Somehow this doesn't make sense. And why do Satan and his demons obey God and follow Jesus' commands in the bible? Why did they not try to resist Jesus?
    What if Satan is not God's enemy but God's servant? In the garden of Eden for example God punished the snake and not Satan. But why is the snake punished? Was it the snake's fault or what? If Satan used to snake as a host then why is the snake punished for this?
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    xdisciplex: //The tormentors are the demons.//

    I believe your statement to be incorrect.

    This passage (Matthew 18:28-35) was written in
    the Roman Empire. There were three classes of
    people: the Roman Citizen, slaves, and other
    citizens of the Empire. For each there were rules
    by which they must behave. For slaves
    (and the words translated 'servant' are rightly slaves
    the words translated 'fellowservant' would righlty be
    translated 'fellow slaves'. One of the laws for slaves
    was that they could not testify in a court of law
    about a Roman Citizen or a Freedman save under
    torture. As for 'tormentor' a better translation might be 'torturer'.
    A slave who owed money could also be sent to the torturer
    until he paid the money owed or died (if he had no money hidden).
    The folks in the Roman Empire played FOR KEEPS.
    LORD Jesus plays FOR KEEPS also.
     
  3. xdisciplex

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    Okay. But even if you are right then what about this here?

    Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    Jesus says that God will do exactly the same! And I don't think that God will send real humans which torture the person....
     
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Rev 14:9-11 ;(KJV1611 Edition):
    And the third Angel followed them, saying with
    a lowd voice, If any man worship the beast
    and his image, and receiue his marke
    in his forehead, or in his hand,
    10 The same shall drinke of the wine of the wrath
    of God, which is powred out without mixture
    into the cup of his indignation, and hee shall
    be tormented with fire and brimstone,
    in the presence of the holy Angels,
    and in the presence of the Lambe:

    11 And the smoke of their torment
    ascendeth vp for euer and euer.
    And they haue no rest day nor night, who
    worship the beast and his image, and whosoeuer
    receyueth the marke of his name.

    Maybe it isn't fallen angels (devils or demons)
    but unfallen (AKA: Holly) angels that torture
    people?

    I know that Milton, NOT A BIBLE AUTHOR, told
    in the book PARADISE LOST more that we think
    devils are like than any of the Bible sources.
    In Milton, fallen angels torment people.
    What does the Bible say?
     
  5. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    But does not my other example prove that I am right?
    What about Paul talking about christians being handed over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh?

    1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

    This makes Satan look like a stupid servant. If Satan had an own will why would he not simply decide not to do what God expects him to do with is: Destroying the flesh.
     
  6. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    I think you both may be right.
     
  7. DQuixote

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    xdx, you are inventing the scenarios then finding fault with them. For example:

    It doesn't make sense because you dreamed it up. It has nothing to do with dumb. One lives under the leadership of God or satan. One living under satan is already turned over to him. Satan delights in making one think he is happy while making him miserable.

    As to Paul, someone in the group, a believer, was behaving wickedly. Since he wouldn't repent, Paul decided not to belabor the issue. In effect he was telling the church to leave him alone. In today's terms we would say that the jerk wrecked his own life. His wickedness would ultimately "destroy" him, but his spirit would be saved. It is important to point out that the Greek, "olethros", for "destruction", does not mean "annihilation".

    Far better for you to ask a question than to invent an argument.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    Satan chose to prosper Pharoah and Nebuchadnezar King of Babylon. But God "drove them to their knees in submisson". Satan does not choose to destroy all those over whom he is given power. If one is cast out of the church as in the case of 1Cor 5 as an act of discipline and that person confesses and respents (as we see them doing in 2Cor 7) - it is not because they were "burned in hell by Satan" -- it is because outside of the church they felt disgraced. Outside of the body of Christ is the world of Satan "the god of this world" according to 2Cor 4:4.

    Christ said that Satan "and the world" love those that are "of the world".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. billwald

    billwald
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    God is playing a game of "Universe" with Satan, see Job 2nd chapter.
     

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