Does hebrews 9:28 teach jesus Died For Some, NOT ALL, Gods Elect?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Jun 7, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Seems clear that Author stating here that Jesus died as atonement for the many, but not the All...

    Would this teach He is High Priest atoning/dieing on behalf of those elect of God only?
     
  2. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    No.. Not if you understand the comparison of the High Priest and the Atonement.

    To whom was the OT atonement made on behalf of.. All Israel (Heb 9:19 bears this out) and not all Israel was saved. However those who, by faith, received the propitiation made the blood would bear those sins away... (yet we know that the blood of animals does not take away sins and were actually saved by faith, we note the meaning, method and manner it speaks to).. and the High Priest offered that atonement before God for sin.

    Therefore, Christ being our High Priest was our propitiation and not ours only but for the sins of the whole world (Note how John ALWAYS uses the term 'whole world' to refer to wicked sinful man). Yet only those who, by faith, receive that propitiation (Rom 3:25) have His blood applied to our sins and they are born away.. thus He bears the sins of Many.
     
    #2 Allan, Jun 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2011
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0

    So Jesus death atoned for/effectual towards those who were the elect, just depends on how you understand just HOW God makes the election process happen!
     
  4. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    No.. it depends on whether or not Christ had to fulfill the Law regarding the Sacrifice of Atonement. If he had to fulfill the Law in order that His sacrifice was holy and righteous then scripture necessitates His death was for all but effectual only upon/toward those of faith. The Atonement has elements that can not be divorced from it's purpose.. the sacrifice had to be without spot, it had to be slain on behalf of all, and of course it had to be on the day of atonement (which is important to remember since it fulfills the Law). Additionally, the High Priest is the only one who was permitted to kill the sacrifice.. Jesus stated that no man kills him.. he lays it down and takes it back up.. And we know that scripture calls Him the Great High Priest and the only one permitted to enter the Holy of Holies.
     
    #4 Allan, Jun 7, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2011
  5. Rippon

    Rippon
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2005
    Messages:
    17,410
    Likes Received:
    328
    Either the Lord has propitiated the sins of every single human being past,present and future or He made propitiation for His elect alone.It's not a potential propitiation. There is no such thing as "receiving the propitiation" in the Bible.
     
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    So 4 point Cals would agree with Arminians that Jesus death was in a propiation/sacrifice atoning for sins of Whole woorld...

    Cals of my understanding would say paid in full "on paper" but effectively applied ONLY to those elected by His soverign Will, election on individual basis...

    Classical Arms would say paid sin of World for "real" but only applied to those who God saw in His Foreknowledge accepting Christ, and He predestined the plan they would get into once decided to accept Christ by faith?
     
  7. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    I realize that.. that is why I referred my point back to the extra biblical book of Romans
     
  8. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    And what is the difference of being 'on paper' and for 'real' if they are not of the same thing? If it is not for 'real' then it can not be seen as being 'on paper'.
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    6,356
    Likes Received:
    0

    Mean that God would send and allow Jesus to die as a Propiation for the whole World, to be an atonement for ALL men BUT in order for it to become effectual and actually get applied/credit to sinners, they MUST respond in faith to receive jesus Christ...

    Unable to do that requirement due to being dead in sins, not able to reply and respond, so God sent forth His grace to quicken those whom he chose to be His elected out peoples, and those such WILL respond bu faith to receive Jesus Christ!
     
  10. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    In discussing the 'free offer' of salvation made to the non-elect in another thread, this issue came up.. here is what I posted there as well.

     

Share This Page

Loading...