Does Jesus say exactly the same things in all 4 gospels?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Dec 21, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    If the bible is 100% dictated by God then Jesus has to say exactly the same things word for word in all 4 gospels. Have you ever compared the gospels and looked for the things which Jesus said? Are they 100% the same?
    Because it cannot be that one and the same sermon sounds different according to the writer. The words which Jesus said always have to be exactly the same, right?
    Otherwise it wouldn't be 100% correct, it would be a paraphrase. But why should God not tell the writers exactly what Jesus said word for word? :confused:
    Every word matters.
     
  2. rbell

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    Do you understand the translation process?

    You do know that Jesus did not speak English, right?
     
  3. xdisciplex

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    No, but I am talking about the greek manuscripts.
    In the greek manuscripts the words which Jesus said in all 4 gospels have to be exactly the same.
     
  4. rbell

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    Do you mean manuscripts or originals?

    Originals...we don't have, but if we did...yes of course.

    Manuscripts...we have thousands. And they agree on every cardinal doctrine. Just not on every word.

    Whose fault is that? Not God's...try copyists, decay rates of papyri, humidity, fire, time...

    ...yet God still gives us His word.

    I think after you've had some time to study the process of translation and "how we got the Bible" from some reputable sources, you'll enjoy this conversation even more than you do now.
     
  5. xdisciplex

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    Are you saying that all manuscripts differ so much that we cannot even tell if they are all identical when it comes to Jesus sermons?

    Or do you not understand what I mean? I mean that if Jesus holds a sermon in John then the very same sermon has to be identical in any other gospel if the gospels tell us word for word what he said.
     
  6. Amy.G

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    The gospels are different accounts of basically the same events. But, anytime you have several witnesses you're going to get a variation in testimony. This happens all the time in a court of law. It doesn't mean that Jesus didn't say the same thing, but that the listeners heard different parts of the same message.
     
  7. xdisciplex

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    But this doesn't sound like inspiration. When God told them word for word what to write down then it doesn't matter at all what they remember or if they were even there. I think it's rather scary when I imagine that everything they wrote down was based on their memory or the memory of other eyewitnesses, this cannot be combined with inspiration in my opinion.When God inspires you then what do you need eyewitnesses for? :confused:
    Either God told them to sit down and then gave them all the words or they did some research and then wrote down what they have been able to find out but then it's not inspired anymore.
    When it's inspired it has to be 100% correct and if Jesus said: "Blessed are those..." then he cannot have said: "All those are blessed..." in another gospel because it wouldn't be correct anymore.
     
  8. Amy.G

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    Who said God told them word for word? Where did you get this information. Inspiration doesn't have to be word for word. They were still human beings and God allowed their characters to be revealed in their writings yet still inspired of God. God has always desired His people to work along side Him to accomplish His will all through human history. The whole Bible is inspired by God working THROUGH His people.
     
  9. xdisciplex

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    Okay, but even if God is working thought somebody cannot change facts.
    Or do you want to say that God allowed them to simply paraphrase Jesus and it doesn't really matter which words Jesus used and the exact word order also doesn't matter? Then you cannot even rely on that Jesus really said what the bible says maybe in the original he said it totally different or used different words or a different word order....
    This cannot be.
     
  10. Amy.G

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    Well, I'll tell you one thing I can't rely on and that is my little pea brain to figure everything out 100% while still in this earthly body. I can rely on the Bible as the word of God and I trust it even though there may be a different wording here or there. All the what- ifing robs me of the joy of my salvation and I just choose not to go there. I think you should do the same. God has everything all figured out even if I don't.
     
  11. Aaron

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    The Bible is inspired, not dictated. The Apostles were told that the Holy Spirit would bring all the things Christ said to their remembrance. It doesn't mean that they would remember the same words, but the meaning would be the same. Besides, if all four witnesses related the testimony the same way, it would prove collaboration, and their testimonies would be unreliable.

    A good book to get to understand the Gospels and the reasons for their differences is Four Views of Christ by Andrew Jukes. Matthew presents Christ to us as King; Mark presents Christ as a servant; Luke focuses more on the humanity of Christ, and John His divinity.

    Absolutely, and Jukes will acknowledge that the Holy Spirit is also behind the differences in the words each disciple used. It's a good book. You need to get it and read it. It's short. Only 125 pages.
     
  12. donnA

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    Four different people wrote the gospels, you see their style and personality come through, even though they wrote God's message. Nothing contradicts anything else in the gospels, they are in complete harmony.
     
  13. Scarlett O.

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    xdx-

    Let's start over. What specific words of Jesus are you talking about that give you trouble?

    Let's go from there.
     
  14. TaliOrlando

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    I guess they were writting everything in their words. I think one of them was a doctor right? Maybe he was more educated then others and thats why it was more detailed. like for me if you say Whats up or hey homie its the same is how are you doing just placed in a different way but instead of confusing you let it give you confidence that 4 different people are writting about Jesus in a great way if it all said the same thing it would be taking the point of Free Will. I dont know just my thoughts on it
     
  15. dispen4ever

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    xdx, you're wrapping yourself up in faulty logic. You're chasing after answers that are already "out there" in the bible itself.

    Matthew was written to the Jews.
    Mark was written to the Gentiles.
    Luke was written to the Greeks, specifically (special case: beyond the "Gentile" designation).

    John, expressing the Divinity of Christ, challenges all of us, for the most part. John connects "the sayings of Jesus" to the testimony of Paul. He is the bridge from the message of Jesus to the Jews, to the message of Paul to the rest of us.

    All of it is divinely inspired. Because the audience was different, and because oral communication was added to the notes taken, there are some linguistic differences. I can imagine one follower listening to another read from his notes, and saying, "O, Yes ~ I was there! He also said.........". The oral communication itself was divinely inspired.

    One Sunday about 5-6 years ago our Pastor brought an exciting, informative, instructional sermon to us. Recently, he went back to his notes and preached the same sermon again. If I play back the recordings of each message, it will be impossible for me to create a harmonious third presentation. The message was the same, the words were different, we listeners were blessed.

    The song goes, "I cast all my cares (doubts, fears, wants, needs) upon You, I lay all of my burdens (mental, physical, for myself and others) down at Your feet. Anytime I don't know what I should do, I just cast all my cares upon You."

    You can do that, as well. Let medical doctors be part of your program to gain control over your mind, a mind that chases endlessly for answers. There is another song, "When answers aren't enough, there is Jesus!" Let Him be the answer.

    :flower:
     
  16. xdisciplex

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    The problem is simply this. There are situations where Jesus was alone, no eyewitnesses. In the garden for example. How told the writers what Jesus prayed when the others were sleeping?
    Either the bible is inspired and God told them what to write down when there was nobody to ask or it is not. The whole eyewitness stuff rather weakens inspiration in my opinion. This is limiting God. I have heard a christian say that somebody must have been awake and have heard what Jesus said in the garden because otherwise it wouldn't be in the bible....
    This is where this leads to.
    Why are christians try to explain everything? In order to make the bible look more reliable or scientific? To me it appears as if they are trying to make it look as if the gospels are a fact and provable because of the eyewitnesses and their accounts, but I don't think this works. If you don't believe in God then you also won't believe because of accounts of eyewitnesses.

    I have no specific verse right now. I was just thinking about this and for me it's logical that the different gospels should all contain the identical words of Jesus because I cannot imagine that God didn't bother about wether the gospels really tell it exactly the way he said it or that the writers had their own freedom to sum it up or to change Jesus' words.
     
  17. dispen4ever

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    Why do YOU question everything?

    Some of us do our best to be helpful ~~ but in your unending search for answers, you often ignore us and move on. God's word is true, authentic, can be relied upon, we can put our faith in what is written.

    You need to receive that good word and move on.

    :smilewinkgrin:
     
  18. Grasshopper

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    It seems you have made up your mind. Why the continual questions that have very logical answers? Again, provide examples if your really bothered by it then perhaps you can get a more specific answer. Also keep in mind that Jesus probably taught many things multiple times during His ministry, so perhaps He was quoted word for word at different times by different people.
     
  19. tragic_pizza

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    It wasn't.

    Problem solved.
     
  20. Scarlett O.

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    Well, that's alright. I'll give you a few passages here in just a minute and we will look at those together and I'll address your concerns about Jesus' words.

    This is where we can make ourselves frustrated....relying on our own logic. :flower:

    Stop imagining for just a few minutes and listen to what some of us are trying to tell you about the truth and validity of the Word of God.

    God impressed through the Holy Spirit for these writers to make a written testimony of the life and ministry of Christ. Each writer had a different audience as another poster here already said and God knew the different needs of the different audiences. In other words, each gospel had a unique purpose.

    This in no way is to imply that the gospels differ in the truth that they proclaim. Each gospel is truthful and is the truth.

    God was not the dictator and these writers were not secretaries. God moved them or inspired them to write Jesus' story. They relied on their own eye-witness accounts, eye-witness accounts of others, oral testimonies, and some possible written testimonies.

    Now, as to Jesus' words.

    Your struggle with Jesus' words not being exactlyt the same is coming from a similar place of struggle that people who only read one version of the bible have.

    The words, the literal words in and of themselves, aren't holy. The Word is holy. Therein lies a HUGE difference. Now let's look at two passages that quote Jesus, but quote Him differently.

    Matthew 4:17 and 19 - "From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, 'Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand'"

    "And he saith unto them, 'Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men.'"

    Mark 1:15 and 17 - (Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel) "And saying, 'The time is fulfilled and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.'"

    "And Jesus said unto them, 'Come ye after Me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.'"
    ..........................................

    Two brief thoughts I have here for you, xdx.

    (1.) Even the King James Bible is a translation of a translation. To become fixated on the individual words and to claim the individual words as the gospel message is a dangerous and slippery slope. And it isn't just KJO christians who do this, but many people claim "their version" of the bible to the literal words of Jesus. Unless you are reading it in the literal earthly language that Jesus spoke, then they aren't His literal words. Even though they aren't His literal words, I believe that God preserves His gospel message in many, many languages.

    (2.) As you can see above, both Matthew and Mark wrote down the same exact message of Jesus Christ, even if eye-witnesses used different words to say the same thing. If I say that a man is "tall" and you say that the same man is "above the average height" and another person laughs and says "that guy must play professional basketball", the words are very different, but we all understand each other's meaning.

    (3.) We as bible-believing christians are not trying to explain everything. I can't explain everything. But we are trying to explain the truth of God's Word to you, in a manner that you will understand, as you seem to question, perhaps not everything, but an awful lot. :flower:





     

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