Does man have the ability to keep the whole law?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Amorphous, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
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    I often hear that man can't keep the law and that's why we need Christ. Why them does the scripture say it's not hard to do?

    Deut 30

    11For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.


    Also it says "the word... Is in thy heart," why then did God say he needed to do this in the New Testament? (Jer. 31)

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  2. Van

    Van
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    Lets consider this wonderful passage.

    It says we (lost people) need to turn to God with all our heart and and soul. A lot of people debate what exactly is our soul, but it certainly encompasses our core attitudes and beliefs.

    Thus under the old Covenant a person needs to go "all in" for God, believing in His promises, and striving to follow His commands. Jesus summarized them as "love God with all your heart" and "love you neighbor as yourself."

    They had no excuse that they did not know what God commanded, the book (Deuteronomy) was readily at hand.

    The key is to see the requirement was one of heart attitude, rather than perfect compliance. Thus faith (live faith from which obedience flows) rather than perfect obedience.

    God set before them the choice of life or death, not the illusion of choice. If they turn away from God they will perish.
     
  3. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
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    Why doesn't that contradict salvation by faith in the OT? (Genesis 15:6, Habakkuk 2:4)?

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  4. HankD

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    It is impossible to keep the law.

    There is no temple in Jerusalem, there is no identifiable priesthood to maintain said temple and the required rituals, feasts, etc...

    There are approximately 613 "mitzvouth" (laws, regulations) in the Torah, about 200 of them cannot be kept without the temple or attendant priesthood.

    e.g. Everyone who is 20 years and older must bring a half shekel of silver as an offering to the LORD via the levitical priests. These shekels must be approved and weighed by the temple authorities. Israel has no such shekel, temple or priesthood.

    Exodus 30
    13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs, an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD).
    14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.

    And hundreds of other mitzvouth.

    HankD
     
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  5. HankD

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    Many try to keep the law as much as possible without the temple or priesthood but they probably don't even do that (keep the rules that they can without the temple or priesthood).

    Even apart from the dietary law - no shellfish, no pork, sabbath keeping...
    e.g. No graven images, not even pictures (Handcrafted in bible days of course).

    Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

    We have all sorts of images and pictures in our society.
    We not only carry images in our wallets (pictures of our loved ones) but images of animals and dead folk all over our money.

    HankD
     
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  6. HankD

    HankD
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    BTW, We are not under the law but the leading of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth.

    He has never led me into sin. I don't want to sin, I hate sin.
    We all do.

    HankD
     
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  7. Van

    Van
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    Salvation by "live" faith does not contradict salvation by faith. OTOH, salvation by "dead" faith contradicts the concept, as does salvation by lip service faith. Professing faith is not saving faith, having God credit your faith has righteousness is saving faith. And His assessment is based on His knowledge of your heart condition, not your lip service profession. He knows from the beginning if you are a phony.
     
  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    We are most certainly under law.
     
  9. HankD

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    Which law?

    Not the law of Moses.

    Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.


    HankD
     
  10. Iconoclast

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    Hello Hank,

    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

    rom3;
    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    rom13;
    8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
     
  11. HankD

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    Do we keep the Sabbath (Saturday rest), eat no pork, no shellfish, wear only only kind of fabric, have no images in our household, in our wallet?

    And many hundreds of other "minor" precepts of the law?
    Paul did to win Jews, should we?

    Where does it begin and end Iconoclast? There are 613 mitzvouth of Torah to keep.

    HankD
     
  12. David Crosby

    David Crosby
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    No, we are not under the Law. But we can't just dismiss it. In fact we even more so embrace it, or should I say pertain to it by the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    The Law is an expression of God's rightiousness with His consistent characteristics of the indwelling Holy Spirit - whereby it is not bondage of the Law to keep from doing wrong, but freedom in Christ desiring to do right. The outward observance of the Law is fulfilled by the inner intentions of God. The Law is fulfilled (Rom 13:10) in us (Rom 8:4) because of Romans 5:5.

    No, we are no longer under the Law. We no longer have to work for our rightiousness (as by the Law). Instead we do rightious works (as by Christ). Christ is our rightiousness (1Cor 1:30), and we rest in Him (Heb 4:3,10). We now rest in Christ as He is our sabbath (rest) in fulfilling the Law.


    Simply put, the Law reflects the moral characteristics of God and His will for us.

    Yeah, remember what God said about putting His Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jer 31:33). So don't go using your liberty as a cloak (1Pet 2:16). Instead, "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage" (Gal 5:1).


    *Rom 13:10 ...love is the fulfillment of the law.


    *Rom 8:4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.


    *Rom 5:5 ...the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.


    *1Cor 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God--and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--


    *Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter that rest...


    *Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.


    *Jer 31:33 ...I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
     
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  13. Iconoclast

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    Hello HankD,
    It begins and ends with the ten commandments for all men everywhere.
    Under Mosaic law all of the laws given were an extension of the ten commandments. This is easily seen in the book of Deuteronomy.
    I will outline it later for you when I get to a keyboard.
    Under Christ all the commands given are also extentions of the ten commandments.
    We are not lawless as Image bearers of our law giving God.
    Christ is the end of the law......for righteousness.......to everyone believing.
    Those outside of Christ will find the law hunts them down as the avenger of blood did.....Jesus alone is the city of refuge.
     
  14. HankD

    HankD
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    The ten commandments?

    Exodus 20
    8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
    9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
    11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

    Are you a Sabbath Keeper? - this is their (Sabbath[Saturday] Keepers) indictment against us the keepers of the Lord's Day (Sunday) - We the "Sabbath breakers" - We have the "beast's mark" upon us:
    My emboldening.
    http://www.sabbathtruth.com/faq/advanced-topics/the-sabbath-and-the-mark-of-the-beast

    HankD
     
  15. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
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    Wouldn't following those precepts be under loving God and Neighbor?

    No images (idols) is to love God
    Don't steal is to love your neighbor

    Sabbath and biblical kosher is to love God?

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  16. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
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    Keeping Sabbath for salvation would be works salvation.

    There's only one unforgivable sin, unbelief.

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  17. Iconoclast

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    Both the 10 commandments and a one day in 7 rest were in effect since creation.
    The ten were included.....under Moses......
    They also are under Christ.....the Lords day.
     
  18. HankD

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    You saw what the The Sabbath Keepers said about us.
    We don't keep what they feel is one of the very important 10 commandments.

    See/read acts 15 the whole chapter.

    HankD
     
  19. Iconoclast

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    Many people say many things.
    Those who deny we are under law to Christ can answer to Him at the white throne. They can explain why they did not feel it was necessary to obey God and His holy law.
    The only law keeping that saves is what Jesus did for His sheep.
    No one is saved however who turns from God's law.

    I understand Acts 15.....let me ask you- why do you keep going back to the law of Moses, as if that was the only law?

    When sin happens in heathen nations....what law of God is broken????
     
    #19 Iconoclast, Aug 10, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2016
  20. HankD

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    Why - because usually it is what Paul refers to especially in Galatians and his defense against legalism.

    Repeat - we are led of the Spirit not under the Law (of Moses).

    HankD
     

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