Does 'Non-Calvinisitic' theology really exalt the view of man?

God has determined how things will work out in the end, but He has not determined every decision that will be made until then.

 

Oh....hows that work & who does that?

 

Do you have chapter and verse for this?

 

Robert,
We plan and purpose what we will, but it never can or never will alter anything that God has ordained to come to pass.

 

#2, no excuses here.

 

Absolute Determinism, one of the rare qualities that some calvinists and naturalists share. I have often heard that politics makes strange bedfellows, apparently we can stipulate the same for theologians.

 

I believe if you look at the totality of scripture, and use a little common sense, it is obvious.

Now, if you want to believe that God ordains every action that is committed, that would make Him responsible for sin, which is impossible.

 

just curious, where did you get this cal theology from as regards to Sotierology? Seems this is NOT what I have been taught/read/ and learned from the Bible!

man is born sinners, and as the direct result of The Fall of adam are soiritually dead to the saving efforts of God apart from a direct act on his part to save us...

we can know God is real and exists from conscious and from general revelation of nature, but unable to know God in a personally/saving fashion apart from his divine work/act of Grace in special revelation...

Which apart from Him revealing jesus to us while in our sin condition , cannot even respond to Him and be saved!

We are ALL still accountible to him, NO 'free excuses" before God!

 

Absolutely NOT!

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

This whole argument rests upon a horrendous premise- that God must judge as men judge.

But for the record, men do murder and steal and rape and commit all kinds of crimes because they are sinners. Yet still our judicial system does not let them off just because they were born sinners.

Do you deny that men are born sinners?

Do you deny that men sin because they are sinners?

Do you rather purport that men are not sinners but they BECOME sinners when they sin??

Because if not, your argument is pointless.

In other words if you believe, as all Christians do, that men since Adam sin because they are sinners, then you know that the reason people murder is because they are sinners. Therefore even YOU have men's judicial systems meting out justice to people who do what they were born to do- sin.

So by your OWN standards God is just is judging men for sinning due to the fact that they are sinners.

In fact our judicial system recognizes that children left to themselves without any moral instruction, without any correctional restraint to their evil passions will most often become the most horrible criminals. The only thing that keeps them from becoming horrible criminals is good parenting and authoritarian restraint throughout their adolescent years.

Yet the judicial system knowing this full well- KNOWING that these adults became murderers because they had no restraint of their sinful passionis in their adolescence- they STILL sentence them to be punished.


So your argument actually PROVES the justice of God in judging the totally depraved and unregenerate masses of man.

Your scenario is actually a good one to SUPPORT Calvinism.

 

Enough said right there. :thumbsup:

The non-cals/arms are looking through the wrong lens theologically, especially concerning the nature of God (omniscience/omnis/sovereignty) and the nature of lost man (dead, evil, wicked, at warfare with God &c): i.e. they are looking through mans lens, not Gods. They have been told this numerous times and even as of now, they still prove this to be true time and again.

This is the major reason why there is so much fallacy in their premises and theologies.

- Peace

 

All Christians do not believe this and prior to Augustine most did not.

 

I think it's telling that the Lord tells us to reason together with Him...not attempt to reason from His vantage as some are saying. Sounds real spiritual...but it is quite false.

 

Webdog,

Not sure what information you have come across that makes you stay on this anti...Augustine crusade /jihad...that you always seen to drag Him into it.
Who said christians believe different prior to that? Are you quoting from some "church fathers'....what is your source of this...you say it alot:type:
Alot of the teaching on sin...comes from the OT...as understood and misunderstood by the first century church.
The explanations in the epistles answer wrong views of OT law...or clarify misunderstandings that were held.
What are you using to base your view on?

 

Here we go with the misuse/misapplication/misinterpretation with no original authorial intent of "let us reason together" from Holy Scriptures via Isaiah 1:18.

webs "interpretation" is not even close to the meaning.

More proof-texting. More error.