Does Pastor contradict himself?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by prophecynut, Oct 2, 2005.

  1. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    Today the pastor of the GARBC church I went to preached on Mt. 9:9 and the differences how those in Christ come to know Him.

    Jesus only spoke two words to Matthew, "follow me," and he believed and followed Jesus. He said this meeting was God's "appointed time" for Mattthew to believe yet he denies predestination and says it is our decision to accept Christ.

    If it was Matthew's decision to accept Christ, the timing of his conversion could not of been appointed by God. He would have to wait until Matthew made the decision to establish the timing of his conversion. With the Pastor's thinking, God is no longer sovereign or did he determine the appointed time of his conversion.

    He also said when someone comes to know Christ in a personal way, it is "all by God's grace," yet he says we must make the decision to accept Jesus as Savior to be saved.

    A decision requires the ability of the person to make the right choice, making one's salvation conditional and not entirely by God's grace.

    Most of the congregation, lacking sound reasoning, were nodding their heads in agreement with the Pastor. Typical of sheep.
     
  2. gb93433

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    Eph. 2:8,9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

    It is God's gift of grace in Jesus but our response is to be in faith.

    Heb. 11:6, "And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him."
     
  3. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    prophecynut,

    You are on the right track. God grants faith as a gift. It is granted by His grace. Not everyone is given faith. We are saved by grace through faith.

    gb943353 changes it around.

    Eph. 2:8,9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."

    That is telling us we are saved by grace.......gb makes it sound like we are offered salvation by grace.....but we must jump through some hoop to be saved.

    It is clear; We are SAVED by grace. That means God gives out of His grace ALL things needed for salvation.

    We already know the grace is not our own.....so what is the part that is not of ourselves? Faith.

    Regards, KJB
     
  4. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    ;)
     
  5. ascund

    ascund
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    Hey Prophecynut

    King James Bond got really close to the answer. Let me add to what he started.

    There is no confusion of three “alone” statements: Justification by God’s grace – alone; through faith – alone; in Christ – alone. Actually, the Reformation adds two others: The Bible – alone and . . . . hmmmmm I plead old age on #5.

    God’s grace alone merely points to the fact that without God’s wooing, no one would be saved. God sets the stage for the personal encounter.
    Christ – alone merely points to the basis of what God has done for us IN CHRIST.
    Faith – alone merely points to the LOOK of faith in Christ that secures eternal destiny.

    The three “alone’s” are not contradictory. Each “alone” is in its own sphere in the plan of redemption.


    Lloyd
     
  6. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    Thanks for your comments Lloyd, I've added two words to your quote:

    God sets the stage and timing for the personal encounter.

    The Pastor made the same mistake as found in the KJB, Eph. 2:8 - "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

    Good works were appointed unto us by God before our existence yet there is no guarantee of their completion when left to man's discretion.
     
  7. gb93433

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    Salvation is a free gift from Gid that is not from us and we cannot boast about it. We are to trust him. Faith is trusting God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. When Gid gives a command he also enables us. To lack faith is to put the blame on God for our disobedience. Lack of faith is not a lack of Him it is too much of ourselves in the way. Faith in Him is trust in Him. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. Without the messenger then how does faith come about. Our faith is in a person not an object. If it came directly from God we would not need a preacher.

    God uses people to give out His message. Our responsibility is to respond in obedience. Is that not faith in God?
     
  8. billwald

    billwald
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    "Salvation is a free gift from Gid that is not from us and we cannot boast about it."

    Right! We can't (even) boast that we were sufficientily smart enough or humble enough or spiritual enough to ask for it. We can only recognize as a done deal if we are sufficiently humble or spiritual.
     
  9. ascund

    ascund
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    Hey Billwald:

    Yep! We aren't smart enuf to ask for it. All we can manage is the LOOK of faith to Jesus and accept what God places into our hands.

    It is sort of like my 2 year old grand-daughter. She isn't used to rhubarb pie. So when I extend a tasty bite to her she refuses it. God's gift is far far far better than rhubarb pie!

    Lloyd
     
  10. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    billwald,

    I think you and I may be on the same page.

    Many of the others have a hard time understanding basic English.

    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Lets figure this out. All have sinned and earned just wages. What is the gift of God? Is it an offer of eternal life?

    Nope.....the gift IS eternal life. How does a person recieve this gift?

    God gives it!

    “But as many as received him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God ” (John 1:12-13).

    Regards, KJB
     
  11. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    Salvation is a free gift from Gid that is not from us and we cannot boast about it. We are to trust him. Faith is trusting God. Without faith it is impossible to please God. When Gid gives a command he also enables us. To lack faith is to put the blame on God for our disobedience. Lack of faith is not a lack of Him it is too much of ourselves in the way. Faith in Him is trust in Him. Faith comes from hearing the word of God. Without the messenger then how does faith come about. Our faith is in a person not an object. If it came directly from God we would not need a preacher.

    God uses people to give out His message. Our responsibility is to respond in obedience. Is that not faith in God?

    But the word of God cannot be chained. I am willing to endure anything if it will bring salvation and eternal glory in Christ Jesus to those God has chosen.

    I agree that Jesus Christ was obedient even to death on a cross.

    "He who does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake shall find it."

    You know that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your fathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. Through Him you have confidence in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

    Though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    Regards, KJB
     

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