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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by DaChaser1, Mar 2, 2012.
As being valid and teaching the Gospel?
Seriously....do you care? I don't. Its probably left up to each individual priest. For example, If you go to a priest to marry you & your betrothed is not Catholic....will they marry you. Yea sure, as long as the betrothed promises to raise the kids as RC's....so whats that tell you?
IF the RCC does recognise any other church as valid, HOW can it be "true/only Church!"
Last I heard the RCC considers orthodox protestant churches as "separated brothers." The Christian Reformed Church just signed a truce with the RCC.
Of course, all this has nothing to do with Baptists.
Here is the section of the Catechism of the RCC dealing with protestants, orthodox and other historical Christian schisms. There are additional ecumenical documents specifically dealing with the Orthodox and Lutherans.
Catechism of the Catholic Church : Paragraph 3. THE CHURCH IS ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, AND APOSTOLIC
you will have to ask thinking stuff....in my day they considered themselves the one true church & old habits die hard. It may be that they accept us as fallen Catholics.
How nice for the CRC to do that ....dont they also embrace women into the clergy?
DeChaser, the answer to your OP is different for Orthodox and Protestant. In 2007 a Vatican agency called the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith published a statement called “RESPONSES TO SOME QUESTIONS REGARDING CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE DOCTRINE ON THE CHURCH.” This agency used to be headed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger before he became Pope Benedict XVI.
Concerning Orthodox churches, the statement said they are valid churches but defective because they do not recognize the successor to Peter as their visible head.
Concerning Protestant churches, the statement called them ecclesial communities but not valid churches because their orders are either defective or nonexistent. This in turn means they cannot have a valid Eucharist which is the central element of any true church.
The whole statement is a short easy read and it may be found here: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...ith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html
Some CRC classis (jurisdictions) accept female preachers, some don't.
My wifes kin are either strict Dutch Reformed or Orthodox Presbyterian.....that would never happen there however in PCUSA churches (we consider apostate) it happens all the time.
sorry but I have a bad taste in my mouth for any protestant church that cuddles up to the RCC ...especially the reformed ones.
What of marriages conducted by Protestant Pastors in those churches....are they recognized? I'm thinking no.
Yes, they are. Same thing with baptisms.
You are actually talking about several different things. Which do not apply to the standing of diffferent Christian Churches. Valid, Licit etc... are different things and are considered seperately.
The Catholic Church considers itself to be the same Church Jesus established through his apostles. As far as christian churches go they have differing views of each churches.
The Orthodox/Coptic Churches they view in Schism from the one true church. These hold to the deposit of faith and are mostly in line with Catholic Church teaching.
As far as the Protestant Churches they consider them to teach certain Heresies. However, where their teaching is in line with Catholic Teaching such as Trinitarian view of God and the hypostatic union, virgin birth, death, and bodily resurrection the Catholic Church considers them to be in union with the one church. Because on these items they are actually carring on the deposit of faith left by the Apostles where they are in line with Catholic Teaching. And thus they are inheritors of the faith passed down by the Catholic Church. Thus protestants are truelly Christian unless they depart from the basics of faith of which some I already mentioned. The Catholic Church does not hold that modern protestants hold the guilt of their founders who grow up in these traditions but contends that the reformers sinned against God by seperating themselves from the one true chruch and that they will be held accountable. As for Chrisitans in these faith traditions in modern times the Catholic Church sees as true Christians though not in full communion with the Catholic Church.
As for marriage. Catholics believe you can marry a non-Catholic from any faith background as long as the non Catholic partner agrees to be open to having children and raising them in the Catholic faith. Though this is not encouraged it is permitted.
How can the RCC recognize at all though ANY protestant church, since trent made it clear that denial of the truths such as papacy/salvation/baptism/Eucherist means that onw would be an Apostate!
TS addressed that in the fourth paragraph.
I did indeed answer your question in the 4th paragraph. However, I would like to add one other thing. Often fundalmentalist Protestants believe that you must believe exactly as they do to be "saved". However, The Catholic church holds that a relationship with Jesus is essential and it is that which determines your position with him. Whatever you choose to believe about the Pope doesn't affect your salvation. Whatever you believe about baptism doesn't affect salvation as long as you are properly baptized.
What must you believe to be saved? Depends on your particular cirucumstance and Catholics don't believe in Judging someone else's eternity. However, it is generally held that to be a real Christian you must believe in these things:
God is a Trinity
Jesus is a hypostatic union of Divinity and Humanity (perfectly both)
That he became incarnate through the virgin Mary by the power of the Holy Spirit and was born while she was yet a virgin
That Jesus suffered under Pontius Pilate
He was crucified for our sins
that he truelly died
that on the third day rose again (under his own power) from the dead
That he ascended into heaven and is currently seated at the right hand of the father
that he will surely come again to judge the living and the dead
that the Holy Spirit is a part of that Trinity God head (not some sort of force) as his own person
that there is a universality of believers
That true believers should be in communion with each other
that based on Jesus' work we are truelly forgiven by God and made right in his sight
that there will be a bodily ressurrection for us
and that there is life ever lasting
this is the fundamentals or the basic things of Christian belief. Any departure from these basic things is to fall into serious heresy and excludes one from Christianity.
>Originally Posted by DaChaser1
>How can the RCC recognize at all though ANY protestant church, since trent made it clear that denial of the truths such as papacy/salvation/baptism/Eucherist means that onw would be an Apostate!
Catholic doctrine, like Bible covenants and the US Constitution, is cumulative. The entire corpus must be considered thus your argument is null and void.
Friends of mine have been told by former priests that since they were rebapised into a different church. that would mean were lost, unsaved, per RCC teaching!
As by recanting on RCC theology, shut off saving grace!
MUCH of its doctrines comes from extra biblical sourcing...
the Gospel itself is main thing, and the RCC does NOT teach the Biblical One!
This is a different issue. A Catholic becoming Protestant. Not a modern protestant growing up in a protestant denomination to which I responded. Your question didn't ask about Catholics becoming Protestants but whether Catholics consider that protestants can be saved. However, since you now advanced the discussion to what of Catholics who become Protestants I will answer. The truth of the Matter is it depends on the situation. A Catholic who really knows their faith and stubornly goes against it in full knowledge of what they are doing is considered by the Church to be in vincible ignorance. Ie
Then your friend would be correct as would the priest however if you have invincible ignorance
Then your friend and his/her preists would be wrong. Since many Catholics who leave the Church don't properly understand their faith (a catachism problem) its not imputable on them when they become protestants. What the Catholic Church believes is that these due to their ignorance actually are living the Catholic faith (that of which was passed down to the protestants).
However, in the first case if the person repents then they are forgiven.
Ie the more you know the more accountable you are.