Does Romans 1:32 mean that Christians cannot watch (secular) t.v.?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jope, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. Jope

    Jope
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    Romans 1:32 NKJV, bold emphasis mine
    who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.​

    The argument can be raised by those opposed to Christians watching (secular) t.v., that this verse tells us that Christians ought not to watch such t.v. because that would mean that he is approving of the evil deeds he sees.

    This argument is not logical in accordance with the Scriptures, as will be seen.

    God's eyes behold the evil and the good:

    Proverbs 15:3 NASB
    The eyes of the Lord are in every place,
    Watching the evil and the good.​

    Yet, this doesn't mean he approves of the evil He watches:

    Psalm 5:4a NASB
    You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness​

    If God's eyes can behold evil, while not approving of it, I think that a Christian that is to be godly (2Pet. 1:6), can do the same with (secular) t.v.
     
  2. Jope

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    This doesn't mean that a Christian should approve of the evil deeds he sees on t.v. though.

    He shouldn't approve of the evil deeds he sees.
     
  3. Jope

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    I do believe that 1Cor. 10:23 should play a role in selection of what media is watched though (pornography certainly does not edify the Christian, for example).

    NASB
    All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify.​
     
  4. Jope

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    I think that shows like The Mentalist can edify the Christian.
     
  5. Judith

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    God sees all, we do not. Choosing to watch entertainment that is sinful only tends to corrupt the one watching. It is no different then what 1Cor speaks of.
    But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

    Keeping company with them on tv is no less wrong. Feeding our sinful appetites does not make a godly person.

    1Cor 15
    Do not be deceived: "Bad company ruins good morals."

    Deceiving ourselves into thinking we can be of the world and not be touched by it in our living is just that deception.
     
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  6. JohnDeereFan

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    Several years ago, when they came out with the cable boxes that allowed you to block channels and individual shows, we blocked the really bad stuff: MTV, SpikeTv, the usual suspects.

    One day, a friend suggested a show called Torchwood, since my son likes science fiction. It was the last straw. Gone are the days of Matt Dillon, Roy Rogers, and Joe Friday. This Torchwood guy was a time travelling homosexual who only seemed to exist to have sex with anything that moved.

    I've always taught our children to evaluate media choices by asking themselves a series of four questions:

    1. Does it pass the Phillipians 4 test?

    Is it true? Is it honorable? Is it just? Is it pure? Is it lovely? Is it commendable? Is there any excellence? Is there anything worthy of praise?


    2. Does it pass the Galatians 5 test?

    Does it exhibit, glorify, or incite the works of the flesh, which are sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, either in thought or in deed?

    Or does it exhibit, glorify, or encourage the fruit of the Spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control?


    3. Does it pass the 1 Corinthians 8 test?

    Even if it's something God grants us the liberty to enjoy or engage in, would our doing it cause a weaker brother or sister in Christ to sin or to stumble in their walk with Christ?


    4. Is it an idol to you?

    If it's something that failed the three tests above, would you give it up? If so, then what would your attitude be about giving it up? Would you be glad to give it up, knowing it doesn't glorify God, isn't conducive to growth in Christ, and could cause a weaker brother or sister in Christ to sin or stumble in their walk with Christ?

    Or would you give it up grudgingly or not give it up at all? If so, then it's an idol.

    When my son, who was ten years old at the time, turned to me and said, "Dad, this fails the test", we knew that was the last straw for our family.

    We got rid of our TV.

    Now, about the only thing we watch is some shows on RFD and the owner of that station has actually done editorials stating that he doesn't care how much money he loses, he will not show anything that is not 100% family friendly and he will not accept any risque advertising (the raunchy "Go Daddy" commercials were big at that time, so I'm assuming that's the kind of thing he was referring to. )
     
  7. Roberta

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    Around last October our satellite contract expired. My husband and I decided that it would be a good idea to give up paying for any type of tv for at least one year. We TiVO shows off the antenna. With retro tv stations we have found that there is a wide variety of entertainment for us for free. So far we have been very pleased with our decision to give up satellite.

    About two months ago I got very disgusted with all of the homosexuality talk. I decided to stop watching shows that condoned homosexuality in any way - this included shows with homosexual actors even if they were playing heterosexual characters. You'd be surprised at the shows that are on my "do not watch" list. "Beverly Hillibillies," "M*A*S*H," "Brady Bunch," "Dobie Gillis" and "Cheers" are just a few shows on that list.
     
  8. Mexdeaf

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    More power to you. But I wonder how many would give up the idol of internet? It is more powerful and has a great more evil influence than TV, IMHO.
     
  9. Zaac

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    This appears to be a bit of a stretch. If it were the truth, couldn't you apply it to watching porn?

    God can look down on all things and not be swayed. He has told us to not do so because of our FLESH.

    He is 100% perfectly holy and as such will ALWAYS respond in Holiness. We, however, have to contend with this flesh that is constantly at enmity with God.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    believe the SPECIFIC application of that passage concerns Homosexual activities, but there are general principles that tell us to govern our thought processes, what we allow in and dwell upon, so TV itself not bad, but certain things on it would not be worth viewing!
     
  11. Jope

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    Edit*************
     
    #11 Jope, Aug 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2013
  12. DrJamesAch

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    The question of the OP is a categorical error from the start. It presupposes an argument from ACTIONS that are condemned in Romans 1 regarding homosexuality, to what one WATCHES. Thus it forces the argument into, do I approve of ACTIONS of those that I WATCH, and that is not the context of Romans 1, and such a premise does not permit a Biblical explanation of, does God care about what I watch?

    The question of does God care about what I watch does not have to be contingent upon approval of the actions of actors in order to be deemed sinful in the watching of it. The question is is God ever concerned about what I put before my eyes, and I believe the Scriptures are clear on this:

    "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me." Psalm 101:3

    Job made a covenant with his EYES not to think upon someone other than his wife. Job 31:1. Jesus made it clear that to LOOK upon a woman with lust in ones heart was just as adulterous as the act itself. Matthew 5:28.

    "The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!" Matthew 6:22-23

    Comparing God's ability to see evil and not be tempted to our ability to see evil and not be tempted is not wise. God seeing evil because He is omnipresent and omniscient is completely different then deliberately going out of our way to put something sinful in front of our eyes. Although television can be a useful educational tool, it is not a replacement for the educational tools that God has provided in the Bible and the preacher. Most television is based upon fantasy which the Scripture tells us such imaginations are to be cast down. 2 Cor 10:4-5.

    To say that watching something can not be harmful or lead to sinful actions is dangerous ground. One of the first contemplations of Eve that led to our sin in Adam was that she SAW that the fruit was good for food. Gen 3:6. When David committed adultery with Bathsheba, it began by him SEEING her naked and bathing,

    "And it came to pass in an eveningtide, that David arose from off his bed, and walked upon the roof of the king's house: and from the roof he saw a woman washing herself; and the woman was very beautiful to look upon." 2 Samuel 11:2

    So it is clear in the Bible that God is concerned with what we put before our eyes regardless of whether or not one INTENDS to allow it to lead to sinful actions or not. The Bible tells us to be on guard against an attitude that THINKS we can "handle it". 1 Cor 10:12, Galations 6:1.

    James 1 shows that sin is a process that begins in part with contemplation. The sin begins before the action even takes place, and to use the excuse that television that is based in fantasy and glorifies sinful behavior can be justified on the basis of education or harmless entertainment is playing with fire, not to mention it is not being a good steward of God's time. Eph 5:16.

    But to answer the OP, YES you are condoning their actions by watching them because the entire purpose of the media industry is to GET YOU TO WATCH IT. WHY?? There are marketing concerns of course, the entertainment industry makes money off of commercials and they promote shows that will draw attention to them and then give air-time to the highest bidders to market their product. And most entertainers are idealists that inject their brands of idealism into their shows. To think that the media does not have a liberal agenda in influencing desires and behaviors that are purposely contrary to Christianity is very naive.

    Sure, you can find something decent in a television show, just as you can find a diamond in a garbage can; but you wouldn't advertise garbage cans as banks anymore than promoting television as fountains of useful tools for gleaning Godly wisdom.
     
  13. Jope

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    I don't see how you draw the conclusion that this is referring specifically to homosexuality:

    Romans 1, NASB
    26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

    28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.​

    I see a list of sins, and I don't see homosexuality in this immediate list. I suppose that it might be a plausible interpretation to include homosexuality from the preceding section of scripture though.

    I'm sure you would see the following on T.V.:

    Romans 1, NASB
    29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;​

    The argument that I am countering in this thread is, that to watch such evil actions would mean that I am approving of the evil actions that I see.

    This is a messianic Psalm and is referring to the second Advent of the Lord and the millennium following. Unless you intend to also follow the end of the Psalm, and "destroy all the wicked of the land":

    Psalm 101:8, NASB
    Every morning I will destroy all the wicked of the land,
    So as to cut off from the city of the Lord all those who do iniquity.​

    Did you read the rest of my posts following?

    Post #3

    Here's what I said:

    I think that a logical conclusion is that I am against watching media that would cause adultery with the eye.

    Do you not "go to a city"?

    Eccles. 10:15, NASB
    The toil of a fool so wearies him that he does not even know how to go to a city.​

    Reading this, as well as Paul's statement below would cause incentive for "going out of [your] way to put something sinful in front of [your] eyes", wouldn't it?

    1 Corinthians 5, NASB
    9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world.​

    So if I were to go out to lunch with some immoral folk, and obey the scripture (1Cor. 5:9-10; 10:27), I must think evil thoughts?

    I don't think that Paul would've gave permission to associate with immoral folk if he thought that this would cause evil thoughts.

    So dangerous as to have permission from Paul (1Cor. 5:9-10; 10:27)?

    I am against watching something that would cause adultery with the eye.

    Again,

    I think that selection should be made by the Christian about what he watches. "All things are lawful, but not all things edify".

    Edification is key.

    T.V. shows like The Mentalist do include evil in them, but the show is against the evil that it portrays (it's a detective show).

    Watching fictional evil is different than real life evil. Telling someone on the T.V. screen to stop doing their evil is not going to stop it.

    But going out to lunch with immoral folk is being a good steward of God's time?

    James 1 doesn't contradict Paul's statement of associating with immoral folk (1Cor. 5:9-10).

    I can't see why someone like Zenas the Lawyer (Titus 3:13) wouldn't be watching a T.V. show like The Mentalist.

    You can find moral folk among the immoral folk, that's just the way the world is. Trying to lock yourself away from the world to stay away from evil isn't biblical.
     
    #13 Jope, Aug 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2013
  14. Jope

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    I should clarify that I'm talking about the world, though it may seem obvious.

    I'll add this scripture:

    Acts 17:5, KJV, bold emphasis mine
    But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.​

    Scripture shows that there is a degree of morality among those that don't believe.
     
  15. Salty

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    Do you have a link for RFD?
     
  16. Alive in Christ

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    This is about all I have any interest in...

    Sports
    Christian programing
    the weather chanell
    PBS
    news channel
    history chanel
     
  17. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    I think this entire thread is a straw man argument, but I will add my two cents (about all its usually worth).

    Televisions, or the internet, are merely mediums of communication. Do you ban all communication because some of the content is offensive?

    Would you ban all books because pornography exists? The same printing press that published porn can print bibles. Is the press evil?

    Would you ban all radio because some forms of music offend you?

    How about a little common sense?

    As to your use of Romans 1:32, like any other passage you must read the context. It is certainly about homosexuality, go back to verse 27. But Paul’s argument is to take those “worst” of sins, and through his list link them with “lesser” sins. Very few of us have committed acts of homosexuality. But read the list. By the time you’re through we have included boasting and disobeying our parents. And Paul does not simply argue that you are just as much a sinner as a homosexual because you boasted or disobeyed your parents, he shows that because we knew the truth, because we knew the judgment of God we are worse. We knew better, they did not! You can’t understand Romans 1:32, without continuing to chapter 2 verse 1.

    Now that is powerful! Paul is saying that we have no right to judge the worst of sinners, even homosexuals, because we know the truth and still commit sin. That is the real message. Trying to turn that into an argument to throw out your TV is pure distraction from the real message.

    Any preacher who would take this passage and turn it into an argument to tell you to get rid of your TV is not only missing the real message of the passage he is guilty of violating it judging others over himself.

    And I have to add this about the word approve. Go back and read the old KJV (no I am not KJVO, PLEASE don’t go there on yet another thread).

    Jope, you want to ask if simply watching something on TV means you “approve” of it. Well in the KJV, instead of

    We have

    The greek word translated approve or have pleasure in is syneudokeo. There is an emphasis here, not only of approval but of pleasure as well as consent. This is the same Greek word translated “consenting” in Acts 8:1 where Saul was consenting to the death of Stephen. Saul not only approved, but enjoyed the execution! Now as Paul, no longer Saul, he uses this same word Luke used describing him, to describe our attitude toward sin. To me that is just really cool when I find links like that in scripture.

    So if you want to apply this to what you watch on TV Jope, answer this, do you enjoy it? Do you take pleasure in it? Do you take pleasure in watching others commit sins you would not yourself? You know the answer.
     
    #17 North Carolina Tentmaker, Aug 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2013
  18. gb93433

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    Just because there are evil deeds done by members in churches does that mean we should not attend church? TV's are not evil. When mine is not turned on it just takes up space. It is true of tools I own.
     

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