On this board I have continually questioned the doctrine of Total Depravity as it relates to men's inability to willingly believe the gospel. I have asked, "Where does the scripture ever teach that men are unable to willingly believe the powerful, Holy Spirit wrought message of the cross?" Every time the debate leads to Romans 8:7-8: 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But I this passage NEVER answers the question I have presented. First, this verse is speaking of man's inability to subject himself to God's law, it says nothing about man's ability to believe in the one who fulfilled the law for us once confronted with His powerful words. Calvinists, such as Pastor Larry, continually argue that faith in God would be "pleasing" to him and thus he concludes that those in the flesh couldn't have faith in God. But he fails to show that those in the flesh would be unable to respond to God's powerful gospel message, which was clearly given for the purpose of bringing those in the flesh to faith. One must try hard to live right and to have faith. All who make themselves clean from evil will be useful, and thus, pleasing to God.