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Featured Does Saving faith Involve an Act of the Will?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 22, 2012.

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  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Try reading the verse in its context which you are attempting to quote!

    3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

    Questions:

    1. Who is Paul saying this to? ANSWER: "TO every man that is AMONG YOU"

    2. Among who? ANSWER: The Christians at Rome

    3. Who is "he"? ANSWER "every man that is AMONG YOU"

    4. Who is "every man"? ANSWER: "EVERY MAN that is AMONG YOU."


    You have no clue about proper Biblical hermeneutics or exegesis and that is precsiely why any discussion with you is an exercise in futility.
     
    #21 The Biblicist, Apr 22, 2012
  2. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Can you show me this verse?
     
    #22 annsni, Apr 22, 2012
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Just for you Ann. Here it is again:
    Rom 12:3     For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
     
    #23 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 22, 2012
  4. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    "For I say" TO WHO? "TO every man AMONG YOU"

    However, he wants to begin at the end of the verse and make "every man" mean Paul is saying this TO - evey man in the whole world!
     
    #24 The Biblicist, Apr 22, 2012
  5. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    It's interesting. I just looked up the verse in the Blue Letter Bible and the two "every man" is a different Greek word. When I looked up the second "every man" (where HP is insisting that God gives every man in creation a measure of faith), I see the word is "hekastos" and when it is used in the Scriptures, it refers to everything in a group. A few examples:

    Matthew 25:15 "And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey."

    Mark 13:34 "[For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch."

    1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal."

    Those are just a few. In reading through the list here, it is clear that it is not speaking of every person in creation but instead all of a group.
     
    #25 annsni, Apr 22, 2012
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Would not the prepositional phrase "en humin" translated "among you" prove your case as well as mine! It is a group and the group is confined to those "AMONG YOU".
     
    #26 The Biblicist, Apr 22, 2012
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but the "every man" in "every man among you" is actually a different Greek term than the second "every man" in "every man the measure of faith". I thought that was interesting!! The first term is "pas" which means "individually - each, all, the whole" or "collectively - some of all types" but the second term's definition is "each, every" and each time it's used, it is speaking of a whole of a particular group. :) It's amazing how one English phrase has two Greek terms!
     
    #27 annsni, Apr 22, 2012
  8. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Faith is obedience, it's believing, yes it is a performance of the mind or heart, the will ! If anyone claims to be Justified because they DO it, they are claiming Justification by works !
     
    #28 savedbymercy, Apr 22, 2012
  9. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    In Mk 11:22, Jesus says

    And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.

    In the greek, this is an imperative, a command to be obeyed !
     
    #29 savedbymercy, Apr 22, 2012
  10. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    In Romans 12:3, the verse under discussion, it is speaking of spiritual gifts. That is the context.
     
    #30 DHK, Apr 22, 2012
  11. Heavenly Pilgrim

    Heavenly Pilgrim New Member

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    Fortunately Ann you are speaking to a Christian friend, and so I will not call you a heretic, or mock your intelligence, or tell you that you believe like Hundus or those of the cults, etc. etc, but I will kindly and simply tell you that I disagree with your conclusions. :thumbs:
     
    #31 Heavenly Pilgrim, Apr 22, 2012
  12. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

    Romans 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

    Romans 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
    --These are gifts given to the church. one of them is faith. It is a spiritual gift in this passage. There is nothing in this passage about "the whole world." The letter was written to the believers in Rome.
     
    #32 DHK, Apr 22, 2012
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Mk 11:22 Have Faith in God is a command, something to be obeyed !
     
    #33 savedbymercy, Apr 23, 2012
  14. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Faith:
    Baptist
    And to be more accurate:
    YLT Mark 11:22 And Jesus answering saith to them, `Have faith of God;


    Which the next verse proves.

    I like that this thread was started when post 82 of thread "Ye reject salvation by grace ! " gives the answer, if correct, yet no comment on that post.

    And of course I understand it is considered incorrect, yet it isn't incorrect without comment.

    Post 85 also being relative now.
     
    #34 percho, Apr 23, 2012
  15. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    perc

    There is no more accurate about it, Faith is commanded to do ! It is a work man does or performs !
     
    #35 savedbymercy, Apr 23, 2012
  16. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    So, according to Romans 5:1 you are admitting that you have a works-based salvation?
     
    #36 DHK, Apr 23, 2012
  17. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Where does Rom 5:1 say that I have a work based salvation ?
     
    #37 savedbymercy, Apr 23, 2012
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    1. SBM states that Faith is a work.
    2. Rom.5:1 states that we are justified by faith.
    3. SBM therefore believes that we are justified by works.
     
    #38 DHK, Apr 23, 2012
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy New Member

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    Faith is a work, it is believing, which is a command, something man must do. It is a work or act or performance of the Mind.

    dhk is the one claiming salvation by his works, his act of believing got him saved, without it, he would not have gotten saved. Do you believe that ?
     
    #39 savedbymercy, Apr 23, 2012
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    In Romans 4:1-5 it declares that faith is not a work.
    I don't believe that faith is a work. I agree with what the Bible teaches.
    Since you believe that faith is a work, you believe in a works-based salvation, because salvation is by faith (Rom.5:1; Eph.2:8,9)
     
    #40 DHK, Apr 23, 2012
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