does scripture support ?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by massdak, May 16, 2005.

  1. massdak

    massdak
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    that poor Christian conduct and poor Christian evangelism results in the unregenerate from coming to Christ for salvation?

    i would like to see opinions on this issue

    is the blood on Christian hands for those who are turned off ?

    please dont read into this post as someone who doesn't care about being honorable for the Lord Jesus.
     
  2. jdcanady

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    Acts 20:26-27:

    Part of Paul's farewell speech to the Ephesian elders:

    "Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God."

    Whether you can actually prevent someone from coming to Christ that is being drawn by the Holy Spirit; I don't think so. There does appear to be some responsibility, however, for neglecting to do the work God has given to us. Very interesting question.
     
  3. massdak

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    i looked up that scripture and is seems paul is talking to and about the believers and it didnt apply to the lost. i checked some commentary that said about the samething.
     
  4. jdcanady

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    I Tim. 4:16

    "Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you."

    It would appear here that Christian conduct and doctrine have an effect on the acceptance of the Gospel.
     
  5. RTG

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    Ezekiel 3:17-21,Son of man,blood I will require at thine hand.Think Paul might have looked back to Ezekiels Christ like example?
     
  6. Craigbythesea

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    Amen!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Pastor_Bob

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    1 Peter 2:12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation. (KJV)
     
  8. Soulman

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    We are the link between the lost and saved. God has chosen to use us as the means of sharing the gospel to the world. I believe a good testamony promotes this.

    I am not a calvanist and I do believe man has the same choice Adam had to do God's will or not to.

    We have an awsome responsibility to present the gospel in a most serious manner. We should be prayed up and NEVER give it hap hazardly.

    The Holy Spirit lives within us. We must allow God to be seen in us or what is the point?

    Those just looking for notches on their belts' and not taking each and every salvation seriously hurts the cause of Christ.

    We must also take responsibility for our new offspring. We must feed them and disciple them till they can eat on their own. This is seriously lacking these days. Baby christians are born and left to starve.
     
  9. Servent

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    Do you really think there are those who are just looking to put notches on there belt, Maybe so but not all. On wed. nights we will have anywhere from 100 to almost 2oo youth at church out of those 90% are lost, If they come they will hear a gosple message but we still try to reach them 1 on 1, some times I may talk with 10 to 15 kids a night then I may never see them again. If they ask christ into there lives at that point then it's between them and God as to what they do. I share the truth with them and then never see them again so am I responsable are are they? Go to www.livingwaters.com go to the search area type in george street, click on the first link and scroll to the bottom of the page,give it a listen, you may find it very interesting.
     
  10. Jeffrey H

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    Christians who exhibit bad behavior, rudeness, and dishonesty will turn people off. We should strive to exhibit the fruits of the Spirit when we relate to all people. HOWEVER, regardless of how nice we are, the gospel message is still offensive and a stumbling block to people. People come to faith in Jesus not because we were nice to them, but because they have been "born again" and convicted by the Holy Spirit. Can people who are "dead in their trespasses and sin" come to Christ on thier own will power? They cannot.

    In the end, there is no blood on our hands because God does the work of regeneration. God will discipline us for sinful behavior toward others, but that will not effect His plans to save some to eternal life.
     
  11. exscentric

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    Kind of a backdoor approach, II Cor. 5.20 tells us we are ambassadors for Christ - a "good" ambassador would see to it that they lived their life in a way that they could 1. represent their boss properly, and 2 be able to influence those he would represent their boss to. "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
     
  12. Servent

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    [​IMG] Very well said.
     
  13. massdak

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    so some truely believe that some peoples salvation is lost due to improperly performing as a Christian should. it sounds to me that the bad draw of luck with a bad witness contributed to a person going to hell.
     
  14. Jim1999

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    We must not confuse the eternal work of God in CHrist Jesus in drawing the elect to Himself, and our personal responsibility in "working out our own salvation....and without works our faith is dead....."

    I believe the scripture teaches that we do not enter into Christ's presence without judgement. We must give account for what we have and haven't done.

    Yes, we must work as if it all depends on man to accept saving grace. It is not ours to know who are elect and who are not. Ours is to proclaim the gospel to all the earth.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  15. OldRegular

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    The unregenerate don't come to Jesus Christ for salvation. The Holy Spirit regenerates them and gives them a new disposition toward God. As John Dagg in his Manual of Theology states: “The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for he that loveth, is born of God.”
     
  16. massdak

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    The unregenerate don't come to Jesus Christ for salvation. The Holy Spirit regenerates them and gives them a new disposition toward God. As John Dagg in his Manual of Theology states: “The change is moral. The body is unchanged; and the identity of the mind is not destroyed. The individual is conscious of being the same person that he was before; but a new direction is given to the active powers of the mind, and new affections are brought into exercise. The love of God is shed abroad in the heart by the Holy Ghost. No love to God had previously existed there; for the carnal heart is enmity against God. Love is the fulfilling of the law, the principle of all holy obedience; and when love is produced in the heart, the law of God is written there. As a new principle of action, inciting to a new mode of life, it renders the man a new creature. The production of love in the heart by the Holy Spirit, is the regeneration, or the new birth; for he that loveth, is born of God.” </font>[/QUOTE]interesting post, but many here believe that the Holy Spirit is just a wooing force and that if a person is not properly witnessed too or if they are turned off by bad Christian conduct then they will reject God. and apparently those who never hear the gospel would be the reason that God looked in the future and say they would reject the Holy Spirits coaxing.
     
  17. Soulman

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    Posted by massdak: so some truely believe that some peoples salvation is lost due to improperly performing as a Christian should. it sounds to me that the bad draw of luck with a bad witness contributed to a person going to hell.

    Awsome responsiblity isn't it?

    Posted by massdak: and apparently those who never hear the gospel would be the reason that God looked in the future and say they would reject the Holy Spirits coaxing.

    People have a choice contrary to the calvanistic approach. God has already seen the end of our lives and seen the choices we will make. I beleive He predestined us based on foreknowledge.

    So to answer your question I believe a poor witness is a poor excuse for a christian. But the bible says we will all be without excuse. God sees to it that we get the opportunity somehow. The word is in our hearts if nothing else.

    I just would hate to see a person make the wrong decision because his christian friend was drunk or presenting Christ in a bad light.
     
  18. massdak

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    sorry to bust your bubble but man is not so supreme that he has the souls and will of man in his hand. it is humbling to know that God and HIS power is what changes mans heart of stone. obedience of man toward God is still Gods doing not mans. in short it is mans fault if he goes to hell and it is Gods grace that man is able to go to heaven.
     
  19. Soulman

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    Posted by massdak: obedience of man toward God is still Gods doing not mans. in short it is mans fault if he goes to hell and it is Gods grace that man is able to go to heaven.

    Jesus is called the second Adam. He was here to offer man redemption to our origional state of perfection. You say it is mans' fault he goes to hell but that only God can change his heart. I know you beleive that if God didn't choose us we would all willingly reject Him due to our total depravity, therefore making us inexcusable before God.

    I think that is hogwash!

    Adam and Eve were given a choice and the ability to decide whom they would serve. We all have the same choice.

    You calvanists make it so convenient that only the elect will be saved. Nobody else has the ability to come to Christ. That IS NOT what the bible teaches! The bible says "Whosoever will". It just gives you an excuse not to worry about the consequences of being a poor witness.

    The bible is an open invitation to man to come to repentance. If it were not meant to be that way it wouldn't have been written as such.
     
  20. massdak

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    your beef is with scripture then, not me it is not hogwash that man is a sinner that cannot change his status with God unless by grace God draws man to Himself.
     

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