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Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Jun 22, 2010.
We are all born sinners are we not? So what is sin & does it have any value?
Yes all have sinned.
What is sin?
Here are some defining passages:
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
KJV James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Value in terms of what or who?
Please define "value".
Does it have value? Yes.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Sometimes I actually prefer sin & freely choose it. To me its common sense, it is reality where everything else in the world is lies, hypocrisy, sentimentality, pietistic falsehood & delusion. So guess you will just have to pile on me with all the bible verses & relegate me to a position befitting my "going to hell status"
The value of sin? The cost of sin? Death. Ours or Jesus's life.
Are you looking for a fight?
Who's jumping on you? Who's told you that you're going to hell?
You asked a question, so people answered it. If you don't agree with the answer, dispute it.
Value in sin? It shows how much God loves sinful people (Romans 5:8, John 3:16). It reveals a little of the depth of God's grace (Romans 5:15-21).
Sin has a value in that it shows us (hopefully) the concept of what you sow is what you reap. There are things that come with sin.....or as a result of sin. It might be happy for a minute, but there is a time, usually even before the reality of hell, that we have a hell here on earth because of our sin.
ANSWER: And so then Tom..... What would you like me to dispute? Personally, I am just giving you my unvarnished beliefs and observing your reactions....OK?
Dispute what? I think I tried to answer your questions. If you're looking for a fight, it won't be me. I don't have the time nor the desire to fight about the value of sin.
No but you do seem a bit combative and provocative with a statement such as:
That being said I agree with Amy.
Death is the ultimate value of sin.
Provocative....hmmm. Interesting word! Must be my approach to the subject matter. No, I'm just "honestly" providing my viewpoint
If your referring to the Death/ Original sin perspective, I am very familiar with the Christian prospective however even here the sin is not something we committed, but one that was committed against us, in spite of ourselves. I might drop the other shoe & pose a question as to why humans would have to suffer for sins of the father, but I wont. My question was more direct, "Does sin have value"
Christ indicated he did not come for anyone but the sinner so I see sin as the Lords focal point....Right?
Now with sin comes guilt. I see this happening all the time. For example, an alcoholic is considered by most people as a classic sinner (right) That individual feels the shame & guilt of his sin & needs to alter his behavior and not drink & behave but what are the consequences of his sin? More to the point, does any good come out of it? Perhaps the individual thru his sin, comes to Christ because of the devastating pain that his sin has caused him. Perhaps the person thru his sin cements a relationship with his God, with his family & with society which would never have happened without that sin's having been there. My own personal walk has sin playing an intrinsic part in my salvation for without it I probably would have never come to faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord & Savior.
Tis not sin that leads one to the savior, nor does one cement his/her relationship with Christ through sin. Can you support these statements with scripture?
I would rather say that the value of guilt (not the sin) lies in the Holy Spirit convicting or reproving you of sin. It didn't come from you.
There is nothing in you or any emotion, feeling, or whatever to commend you to God in and of yourself.
There is no value therefore in sin in the sense that you are giving it IMO.
God brings good out of bad.
In that sense only is there any value in sin that God can bring good out of it in spite of ourselves.
OK so your saying it's a process then?
gospelgeek is right here. I found your statements, EWF, very strange...if not Mormon. Are you studying with the Mormons by chance?
It is only the grace of God that can be credited with the repentance and salvation of the sinner.
Is what a process?
If you mean conviction of sin, I suppose one could call it a process but I don't see the Scripture calling it a process.
The Scripture says that the Holy Spirit reproves the world of sin.
It is an ongoing act. The imagery of the Scripture is that of coming to the light.
Those who come to the light and acknowledge their sinful condition are saved, those who remain in darkness are not.
OK .... Could you define what constitutes the world?
How do you mean that?
There is the world typified by people, which God loves:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
There is the world typified by those things which motivate it which God does not love:
1 John 2
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
For the moment, the world is under control of the evil one:
NKJ 1 John 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.