Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Jun 10, 2011.
or is it just assumed?
I have to say that I am glad you weren't a member of the church I pastored. I had a shoe box that was decorated for folks to put questions in for me to develop messages on for our sunday night service. You would ahve wore me out with all these.
Just making sure get our "moneys" worth!
Just think how my pastor feels, as he just earned his second Docterate in Theology, and made sure to "quiz" him, said I was worse than the Drs that grilled him on review board for his Phd!
I would suggest that it is assumed, but that Adam and Eve would likely qualify on the righteous faith aspect that also defined persons like Abraham, Moses, David, et al.
Before they fell into sin, they needed no salvation. They were already in the state that we so desperately crave today -- in the presence of God, having the potential for abundant life eternal, all cares met, harmonious relationships, etc. Their "choice" (truly they were the only humans with a true choice -- after A&E, choice was removed) to rebel against God cost them and the entire human race untold agony, despair, and regret -- save that we oftentimes don't even realize fully what it is that we lost, nor what it takes to regain what was lost.
Would you agree with me here that Adam and Eve were ONLY humans ever after "real" free will, after Fall we all have it it now 'limited", which tends to lend support to why God would need to elect usin iorder for us to actually get saved!
God made the first sacrifice and that He covered their sin, sinners continued with these sacrifrices looking forward to God who made the final sacrifice and the one who trust in Him will not be disappointed or put to shame.
Reply to Jesusfan
I do not see it that way.
It is true that before the Fall, Adam and Eve had not been corrupted and predisposed to sin, but to limit "free will" to those two for that pre-fall period redefines the meaning of "free will." To be able to act at our discretion, without such constraint that would limit our choice to one option is the meaning of free will, rather than the absence of any and all constraints.
Since we cannot save ourselves, even if we "will" to be saved, that requires that God saves us. And that requires that God chooses to save us. To say we save ourselves when we trust in Christ, and unsave ourselves if we stop trusting in Christ, ignores Romans 9:16 which says it does not depend on the man that wills.
BTW, the Bible does not say Adam and Eve were saved and therefore no one should assume they were saved. Adding to scripture with the conjecture of men is a no-no in my book.
1 Peter 2:6
For in Scripture it says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”
1 John 2:
Warnings Against Denying the Son
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.[Some manuscripts and you know all things] 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life.
26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.