Does The Bible Permit The Christian To Drink Beverage Alcohol?

Discussion in 'Forum for Polls' started by standingfirminChrist, Dec 26, 2005.

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Does Dhe Bible Permit The Christian To Drink Beverage Alcohol?

  1. Yes

    98.0%
  2. No

    2.0%
  1. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    In light of Proverbs 23:31, is the Christian allowed to drink alcoholic beverage? Please use scripture and not doctor's reports.

    God's Word is the sole authority the true christian should rely on.

    Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, [when] it moveth itself aright.

    [ December 26, 2005, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: standingfirminChrist ]
     
  2. JamieinNH

    JamieinNH
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  3. standingfirminChrist

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    Choices were too broad. People are using their own presuppositions to give answers.
     
  4. KenH

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    Yes, as long as a Christian does so in moderation and does not get drunk, he/she can drink beverages that include alcohol. He/she can also gargle with Listerine.
     
  5. Jim1999

    Jim1999
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    They didn't make Molsen's 2000 years ago!!! This topic is getting wearisome, and fruitless.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  6. JamieinNH

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    Yes, In talking about tithing, if the crops were abudent, why would the Lord want them to sell the crops, and go to the place of worship and buy wine, if it won't allowed in the first place?

    Deu 14:22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

    Deu 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.

    Deu 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:

    Deu 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:

    Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

    Deu 14:27 And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.


    Jamie
     
  7. padredurand

    padredurand
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    I'm still looking for the verse that says a person loses the ability to reason after becoming a Christian.....

    Now if we could only have a thread on the combined effects of card playing, long-haired men, dancing, reading CS Lewis, reading the NIV, going to the motion picture show.....


    Great-great-grandson of Relief Farmer, founder, Osceola NY Chapter of the WCTU!
     
  8. chipsgirl

    chipsgirl
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    moderation my friends
     
  9. Linda64

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    Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. (Proverbs 20:1)

    Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. (Proverbs 23:31)

    7200. ra'ah (Look)
    Search for H7200 in KJVSL
    har ra'ah raw-aw'

    a primitive root; to see, literally or figuratively (in numerous applications, direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative):--advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, look (on, one another, one on another, one upon another, out, up, upon), mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think, view, visions. (Strongs)
     
  10. Johnv

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    Yes, absolutely. Scriptuer clearly permits, and in some verses, praises the consumption of alcohol. But scripture clearly and abundantly forbids drunkenness and abuse of alcohol.
     
  11. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    'tis a shame and such disgrace
    they cling to booze and seek God's face.
    A preacher lied and said 'tis right
    God will not turn from thee tonight.
    Drink a sip it will not kill
    Even though 'tis not God's will
    The Spirit seeks to prick the heart
    Yet man is blind and will not part
    He sin he loves too much to turn
    And in the end the soul will burn
     
  12. Gina B

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    Since you would not hear it for others, allow me to present it in your own language.

    Twas God who created the fruit on the vine
    His Son that then changed it into wine
    And scriptures say that when we're ill or depressed
    Take a drought of wine, it will give thee rest
    Fear not what the Bible tells us is good to do
    It won't lead me wrong, believe me it's true

    Perhaps this verse in Proverbs is speaking of strong wine, liquor, which causes drunkenness, inflammation, redness. I've seen some commentaries that do believe this is the reference meant in Proverbs.
    The Bible LOOKS like it contradicts itself, but that can't be possible. So, we have to figure out where we're misinterpreting.

    We were obviously told that drinking wine is good, provided we are not drunken.

    We are told that drunkeness is bad. That is not a contradiction.

    We are told not to look at wine at a certain time. To understand that verse, we can't say "all wine is bad".
    We say "getting drunk is bad", as is apparent in the surrounding verses, and we say "but what does this kind of wine mean that we are not to drink?"

    The most logical conclusion is that it means very strong wine. The kind that causes drunkeness. And we say that to drink any wine to the point of drunkenness is wrong.

    Now, here's a question for you sfiC. If drinking wine for medicinal purposes or celebration is wrong, what about morphine for a person in pain? It alters the senses, makes one much more loopy than wine, is highly addictive, and often it only takes one dose to make a person suffer withdrawal symptoms.

    Do you believe strong pain pills are a sin?
     
  13. JamieinNH

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    standingfirminChrist and others that believe a Christian shouldn't drink, how do you explain the verse I quoted above and below?

    Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household.


    Jamie
     
  14. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    JamieinNH and others that believe a Christian can drink, how do you explain the verse I quote below?

    Proverbs 23:31 Look not upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth its color in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.?
     
  15. gb93433

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    Wasn't that beverage wine Jesus drank? Wasn't it water which Jesus turned into the best beverage wine?
     
  16. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    Gina L

    You are correct, the Bible does not contradict itself.

    One must read the verses in context and one will find which wine is good and which is not.

    When are we not to 'look' at the wine? When it is fermented! (when it moveth in the cup, this is not after one has already gotten drunk) Wine was not always fermented. Again, context.

     
  17. Gina B

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    The same way you've explained Deuteronomy 14:26, sfiC! Eke! :)

    I've never seen anyone give a good explanation of either verse in light of each other. Like I said, the SEEM to contradict, but that's not possible so we must have made a mistake.

    What is the mistake? We don't know what "when it is red in the cup and when it moveth itself aright" means.

    That's the kind of wine it says not to drink. It also says not to drink ANY wine in excess.

    So, it'll all be settled when ANYONE can give an accurate and precise interpretation of that verse.

    Since you're the one saying nobody should drink ANY wine, and using that verse as your proof, will you please explain why you think it means that when it doesn't say that, but rather seems to describe a specific type of wine?
     
  18. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
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    WINE
    The vine being natural to the soil of Canaan and its vicinity, wine was much used as a beverage, especially at festivals, Es 1:7; 5:6; Da 5:1-4; Joh 2:3.

    As one of the staple products of the Holy Land, it was employed for drink-offerings in the temple service, Ex 20:26; Nu 15:4-10;

    it was included among the "first-fruits," De 18:4,

    and was used in the celebration of the Passover, and subsequently of the Lord's supper, Mt 26:27-29.

    Together with corn and oil it denoted all temporal supplies, Ps 4:7; Ho 2:8; Joe 2:19.

    The word "wine" in our Bible is the translation of as many as ten different Hebrew words and two Greek words, most of which occur in but a few instances. The two most frequently used, Yayin and its Greek equivalent Oinos, are general terms for all sorts of wine, Ne 5:18.

    Without minute details on this subject, we may observe that "wine" in Scripture denotes,

    1. The pure juice of the grape, fermented, and therefore more or less intoxicating, but free from drugs of any kind, and not strengthened by distilled liquors.

    2. Must, the fresh juice of the grape, unfermented or in process of fermentation. For this the Hebrew employs the word tirosh, English version, new wine. Wine, as a product of agriculture, is commonly mentioned by this name along with corn and oil, Ge 40:11; Ex 22:29; De 32:14; Lu 5:37-38.

    3. Honey of wine, made by boiling down must to one-fourth of its bulk. This commonly goes, in the Old Testament, by the name debhash, honey; and only the context can enable us to determine whether honey of grapes or of bees is to be understood, Nu 18:12; Pr 9:2,5.

    4. Spiced wine, made stronger and more inviting to the taste by the admixture of spices and other drugs, Song 8:2.

    5. Strong drink, Hebrew shechar. This word sometimes denotes pure strong wine, as Nu 28:7; or drugged wine, as Isa 5:22; but more commonly wine made from dates, honey, etc., and generally made more inebriating by being mingled with drugs.

    The "wine of Helbon" was made in the vicinity of Damascus, and sent from that city to Tyre, Eze 27:19. It resembled the "wine of Lebanon," famous for its excellence and fragrance, Ho 14:7.

    Great efforts have been made to distinguish the harmless from the intoxicating wines of Scripture, and to show that inspiration has in all cases approved the former alone, and condemned the latter, directly or indirectly. It is not necessary, however, to do this in order to demonstrate that so far as the use of wine leads to inebriation it is pointedly condemned by the word of God.

    Son and shame are connected with the first mention of wine in the Bible, and with many subsequent cases, Ge 9:20; 19:31-36; 1Sa 25:36-37; 2Sa 13:28; 1Ki 20:12-21; Es 1:10-11; Da 5:23; Re 17:2.

    It is characterized as a deceitful mocker, Pr 21:1;
    as fruitful in miseries, Pr 23:29-35;
    in woes, Isa 5:22;
    in errors, Isa 28:1-7;
    and in impious folly, Isa 5:11-12; 56:12; Ho 4.11.

    The use of it is in some cases expressly forbidden, Le 10:9; Nu 6:3;
    and in other cases is alluded to as characteristic of the wicked, Joe 3:3; Am 6:6b&gt;.

    Numerous cautions to beware of it are given, 1Sa 1:14; Pr 23:31; 31:4-5; 1Ti 3:3;

    and to tempt other to use it is in one passage made the occasion of a bitter curse, Hab 2:15b&gt;.

    On the other hand, whatever approval was given in Palestine to the moderate use of wine, can hardly apply to a country where wine is an imported or manufactured article, often containing not a drop of the juice of the grape; or if genuine and not compounded with drugs, still enforced with distilled spirits. The whole state of the case, moreover, is greatly modified by the discovery of the process of distilling alcohol, and by the prevalence of appalling evils now inseparable from the general use of any intoxicating drinks.

    Daniel and the Rechabites saw good reason for total abstinence from wine, Jer 35:14; Da 1:8;

    and the sentiment of Paul, on a mater involving the same principles, is divinely commended to universal adoption, Ro 14:21; 1Co 8:13.

    Taken from American Tract Society Dictionary
     
  19. Gina B

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    I appreciate you taking the time to do that,that explains wine and it's different types, but doesn't seem to explain what "when it is red in the cup and when it moveth itself aright" means. That's what I'm trying to understand, what that particular type of wine means.

    Or perhaps you were trying to point out that it probably means spiced wine, or wine that is not made from grapes or that has distilled liquors added to it?
     
  20. standingfirminChrist

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    Gina L,

    I am not sure what was in it, but just that one word 'Look' in verse 31 and what it means in the original Hebrew (do not experience), would indicate it was wine to be avoided.

    I do know that wine is stronger today than it was back then, as I pointed out that Isaiah 5:11 indicates. One can call a winery today and they will tell you the wines are stronger today than 150 years ago due to fortification process coming about.
     

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