Does the bible say all humans are evil?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    Does this mean that really all humans are basically evil and murderers at heart?
    But aren't there also unbelievers which are really nice and gentle? I mean is it absolutely impossible that a person is not born again but inspite of this this person is meek and gentle and very much like a born again christian?
    Or are even those people which seem very nice and harmless like furious beasts inside? What do you think? Do you not know any unsaved persons which seem to have a heart of gold and which have a high morality? :confused:
    What about somebody like this who is not a christian but still wouldn't lust after a woman or steal or lie? Do you think such people exist or can they not even exist according to the bible because Jesus says that the heart is full of evil stuff and everybody has a heart this means everybody is evil.
     
  2. dispen4ever

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    You are comparing apples and oranges. When Adam & Eve sinned, original sin entered the human race. They were cast out of Eden. Since that time humanity has been lost, living in sin, not looking to God for deliverance. They will remain lost until they receive Christ as Savior.

    Yes, there are nice people out there who are not Christian. They still remain lost without the intervention of Jesus. The assignment of the Holy Spirit is to minister to "that which was lost."
     
  3. DHK

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    Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

    Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

    Romans 3:10-12 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
    11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
    12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

    Before God all are sinners; we all are evil; there is none that is good.
    DHK
     
  4. Amy.G

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    The problem isn't about how nice we are. We all sin. We all need a savior. There are plenty of unsaved people who do good things, but without Jesus their sin remains on them.
     
  5. ZeroTX

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    The total depravity idea is a novelty of the Luther era and onward. Original sin does indeed pass to each of us in the human race, and we need Grace to overcome that, which is why we receive Baptism. On the other hand, no, I don't think we're all pre-wired to be villains and murderers. I believe that to be the choice of the person to give in to temptation or to seek malice towards others. There certainly are "good people" out there who are not Baptized Christians, and this is thanks to the fact that God gave us all something right in our very soul from birth: a conscience. How we choose to utilize our conscience is largely what determines our fate (e.g. accept Christ's sacrifice & Baptism or deny it and go live an intentionally sinful life).

    Something that I remember from my old Baptist days that I think still applies even though my theological leanings have changed somewhat: Sin is fun. That sounds awful, but it is or nobody would do it! It's fun to have sex with your brother's wife, but it's sinful and ultimately there woudl come nothing but guilt and bad things from it (e.g. destroying the family and multiple marriages). It's fun, which is why we are called to the challenge, not the easy to do task, but the CHALLENGE to look to Christ to overcome temptation and to go to Christ with our confessions and make things right when we slip and fall. Only through Christ's sacrifice and His forgiveness can we learn to listen to our God-made conscience to avoid future occasions of sin...

    ...but no, I don't believe we're all evil to the core, but there are people who have chosen that path. It's a choice to take the challenge of not sinning or to take the easy route of sinning without repentance or regret. The easy route doesn't lead to a good place, I'm afraid :( The promise of being in Heaven with Christ makes us choose to work towards the more difficult path.... a truly difficult path sometimes, especially when we slip and fall flat on our face and think we can't do it. With Christ, we can.

    God bless,

    Michael
     
  6. DHK

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    We have all chosen that path whether we like it or not.
    "There is none good, no not one."
    "There is none that seeketh after God."
    "There is none righteous, not one."

    Your argument is with the Word of God.
    God does not value your opinion when it comes to His authority. Your opinion is worthless in the light of the clear statements of His Word. All opinions are.

    All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes you and me; Hitler and Stalin--we are all in the same boat--sinners.

    "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags."
    There is nothing good that an unsaved man can do in God's sight. Even the plowing of the wicked is an abomination in his sight.

    The unsaved man seeks God like a criminal seeks a policeman.
    The truth is that it is God that reaches down His hand from heaven above, and in his great love and mercy lays hold of man and grasps him, pulling him out of the depths of sin, and sets him on the solid rocik of Jesus Christ, who through His grace died for man's sins.
    DHK
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Social liberals believe in the "inherent goodness of mankind" as you say "nice and gentle at heart".

    Romans 3 and 7 state that there is "NONE who seeks after God not even one"

    Our sinful nature is -- full-of-desire-for-sin.

    But in Gen 3 God tells us that He supernaturally places hatred and war between Satan and humans.

    In John 16 He says that He convicts THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment.

    IN John 12:32 HE says that He DRAWS ALL to Himself

    In John 1 He is the LIGHT of the world such that He enlightens EVERY ONE of mankind.

    In Romans 2 we see that this can affect even those with no scripture at all Rom 2:11-16.



    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #7 BobRyan, Oct 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2006
  8. Agnus_Dei

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    all have sinned. The Greek word for ‘all’ is pas, which may sometime mean ‘a great number’, ‘most of’ or ‘a lot’.

    With that being said, I don’t believe that infants, toddlers or small children who have died have sinned.

    I have two mentally handicapped relatives and they have not sinned. It's hard to believe that they (toddlers, babies or the mentaly handicapped) sin, since in order to commit personal sin one has to have understanding or the mental capacity to do so.

    Blessings
     
  9. DHK

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    Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
     
  10. Brother Bob

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    Well, it has to be after the come forth from the womb but also to tell a lie is to try and deceive someone by making a false statement. Lets use some common sense here. You have to be able to comphrehend what you are doing and you can't do that until you mature some. "as soon as they are born" is where they are heading alright but not until they are old enough to understand.
    Most of us punish our children for lying and I don't know anyone who punishes infants for lying, if it happens it more than I know of.
     
    #10 Brother Bob, Oct 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2006
  11. Amy.G

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    Romans 3:23
    For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
     
  12. DHK

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    According to your statement it is impossible for a deaf mute to tell a lie, for he cannot "make a false statement." He is unable to speak, just like an infant. "Telling a lie" or more accurately "lying," does not necessarily involve the art of speaking. It is deception. And to bring discipline or spanking into the equation is just another red herring. That is not the subject. Is an infant capable of deception? Ask any mother. The answer is yes.
    DHK
     
  13. Diggin in da Word

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    My nephew was lying before he could even talk. He had an older brother that died of SIDS six years before he was born. Because of his brother's death, my nephew had to wear a heart monitor the first six months of his life.

    When a lead would come loose from a patch or if my nephew's heart stopped, the monitor would let out an alarm so a parent could run to his aid.

    My nephew learned that when the alarm went off, someone came... and it got to be a game with him. We hid behind the door and watched him one day and he looked toward the door and deliberately pulled the cord off. When we came to the bedside, he would giggle and coo. He knew how to play the adults.
     
  14. Bro. James Reed

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    Christ died to save sinners. If toddlers, small children, and the mentally handicapped do not sin, then they are not sinners. They, therefore, can not go to heaven because Christ did not die for them.

    I don't believe that and I hope you don't either.

    Every single person that has ever been born throughout history, save our Lord and Savior, has been just as much a sinner as anyone else. My 3 year old nephew is just as guilty with sin as was Hitler or Judas or Osama.

    There is only one thing that separates anyone from an eternity in hell, and that is the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I am no better, in my own will and nature, than the worst person burning in hell today, and the same goes for every infant and retarded person.
     
  15. Agnus_Dei

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    Well, I hope you don’t believe that all sinners are going to heaven, b/c Christ died for all sinners. I thought that repentance was needed for salvation. How can a toddler repent? How can my severely handicapped aunt and uncle repent when they have not the mental capacity to know what sin is or whether or not they are even consciously committing a sin or even know what the consequences are?

    Key word in Romans 3:23 is…have…have is past perfect tense. St. Paul did not mean it in the literalistic sense some want to interpret it as. We know that in the common English usage we often do not mean it in the strictest sense of the term. Most mothers would understand that when their child says "All of my friends are going to the movie." The child does not mean "Absolutely every single friend I have is going to that movie."

    I think it should be quite obvious to everyone that St. Paul did not mean this instance to use it to specify that "every single person without exception "has sinned". Certainly Jesus is a human being and of course, St. Paul knew that Christ did not sin. He also knew that infants and even children who died before reaching the age of reason had not sinned.

    St. Paul said "all have sinned". You can't interpret one of the words in a rigidly literalistic sense and then change the following words to suit your purpose. He didn't say "all people have sinful natures" or "all people would sin if they lived long enough and had the full mental capacity to do so". If you want to take him literal you have to be consistent in doing so. You have to believe that he intended every single person whoever lived has already sinned; done deal, past tense, over and done with, no exceptions.
     
  16. ZeroTX

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    Lack of righteousness and/or the fact that we're sinful is not synonymous with being evil.

    Ditto for you.

    -Michael
     
  17. xdisciplex

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    When the bible says that the heart is wicked then this means that there is truly noone who one could say has a good heart, correct?
    Or can somebody still have a good heart? Or maybe it depends on the perspective. Maybe we would say that somebody is a good person while God would say that he's not. :confused:
    But what if there are some people which are full of love and which also love other people and simply are this way? Imagine you knew somebody who is not a christian but inspite of this he appears to be perfect wouldn't this be scary? Because according to the bible such a person cannot exist but what if you knew such a person and you would try to find a weakness and you couldn't find any? :eek:
     
  18. DHK

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    In God's sight sin and evil are pretty much synonymous. All sin is evil. The heart of man is evil and desperately wicked. God calls it so. It is both sinful and evil at the same time.
    That is why I say that you must take up your argument with God. My opinion and your opinion don't count. It is what God that says on this matter. Our hearts are both evil and sinful. There is not much difference. A sinful person is an evil person.
    DHK
     
  19. DHK

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    Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
     
  20. Claudia_T

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    the Bible does compare people with a good tree that brings forth good fruit

    Mt:7:
    16: Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17: Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
    18: A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.


    Now read this:


    Mt:12:35: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
     
    #20 Claudia_T, Oct 24, 2006
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