Does the Bible teach such a thing as Spirit Baptism?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Daniel David, Sep 12, 2002.

  1. Daniel David

    Daniel David
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    I would like to see some texts that teach that the such thing as a Spirit Baptism exists. I do believe it does and will post some on it myself. I didn't want to poison the well and start on offense. I defer to the second half.

    If you believe it doesn't, please use the texts to indicate it is water baptism.

    The obvious one is of course, 1 Corinthians 12:13.

    There is the kickoff.

    Out like Rex Grossman's chance for a Heisman.
     
  2. rlvaughn

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    Yes, Acts 1:5 (cf. Acts 2:1ff; 11:15).
     
  3. Mrs KJV

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    My friend you wrong! First Paul was writung to a local visable Church 1Cor.1:2. Baptism is the way into a local visable Church,"For by one Spirit are we baptized into one body," a local church The statue in life also does not matter,"whether we be bond or free;" "and have been all made to drink into one Spirit," whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
     
  4. HankD

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    Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

    Spurgeon corrects this to "He shall baptise you in the Holy Ghost"

    Greek "en" locative not instrumental.

    HankD

    [ September 12, 2002, 10:41 AM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  5. Mrs KJV

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    If you know anything about your bible the holy Spirit did not stay with man until Christ was on the Cross and ascended to the father. John 20:22 says And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, "Receive ye the "Holy Ghost:"
     
  6. DocCas

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    Yes, and that prophecy (same event recorded in Mark 1:8, and Luke 3:16)was fulfilled in Acts 1:5, with the additional revelation "not many days hence." And "not many days hence" on the day of Pentecost, that prophecy was fulfilled. And, as you noted, it was Jesus baptizing the church assembled in the upper room into the Holy Ghost, not the other way around. One time event, occured on day of Pentecost, never needed repeating, just as our water baptism never needs to be repeated. Once is enough.
     
  7. DocCas

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    The context is clearly local church and water baptism. By the time Corinthians was written the promise of spirit baptism had been fulfilled for about 25 or 30 years. The "one baptism" of Ephesians was water baptism. The grammar is very similar to Luke 4:1 and Titus 3:5. The theme of 1 Corinthians is "unity" or "oneness" in Christ in the assembly. Paul is telling them it was by "one" spirit (not "the" spirit as some spirit baptizers try to make it read) that folks are led to be baptized into "one" body, the local church at Corinth in this case, signifying their unity or "oneness" with Christ, and if they are all at "oneness" with Christ then they should also be at "oneness" with one another. Unity is the context. Unity of the local assembly.
     
  8. Bible-belted

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    Except Paul indicates in 1Co. 12:13 that we are all baptised into the Body by the Spirit.
     
  9. DocCas

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    Exactly! So, it can't be the "spirit baptism" of or even similar to Acts 2. And the context is pretty plain about what Paul is talking about1 Unity in the local assembly as evidenced by our "one" baptism by "one" spirit into "one" body. Unity, unity, unity, not charismatic nonsense!
     
  10. C.S. Murphy

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    Doc are you saying that the spirit baptism comes at immersion (water baptism)? I am confused.
    Murph
     
  11. Bible-belted

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    "The context is clearly local church and water baptism."

    Local church, yes. Water baptism, no. The appeal is to the fact of membership in the Body by wy of the baptism of the Spirit to quell dissension within the local church. Water baptism is not in the context.

    "By the time Corinthians was written the promise of spirit baptism had been fulfilled for about 25 or 30 years."

    Acts 2:18 ; Ro. 8:9; Gal. 3:2 all indicate that the gift of the Spirit is a seal of their eternal fellowship with Christ as members of the Body.

    Acts 2 is the fulfillment of of the promise in Acts 1:5. Hence the bapstism in the Spirit is a necesssary initiatory event. Without it one never becomes part of the Body of Christ. That continues to be the case today.

    To argue that the experience must be just like that in Acts 2 is false; it is a non sequitur as Paul argues that many manifestations are possible. So it is not the manifestation but the manifestor that is the common denominator and the point.

    "The "one baptism" of Ephesians was water baptism."

    Yes, but that has no bnearing on whether the baptism in 1Co. 12:13 is water baptism. To assert otherwise is to impose a thought from outside the Corinthians context. Indeed, the corinthans context does not lead one to expect a mention of water baptiosm, but Spirit baptism. Furhter the Greek of 1Co. 12:13 does not lend itself to the reading required by your view.

    "The grammar is very similar to Luke 4:1 and Titus 3:5. The theme of 1 Corinthians is "unity" or "oneness" in Christ in the assembly. Paul is telling them it was by "one" spirit (not "the" spirit as some spirit baptizers try to make it read) that folks are led to be baptized into "one" body, the local church at Corinth in this case, signifying their unity or "oneness" with Christ, and if they are all at "oneness" with Christ then they should also be at "oneness" with one another."

    Paul is telling the people that since they have all beeb baprtised BY one spirit (not led to be baptised by one sprit, as some try to assert without evidene). The appeal to the universal experience is suppsoed to lead to unity within the local body.

    "Unity is the context. Unity of the local assembly."

    Which does not require your view or even make it more likely. The fact that the greek and the context do not lead one to expect water baptism suggest that you are attempting t5o impose an idea from outside the context upon 1Co. 12:13.
     
  12. Pastor Larry

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    So it seems you are taking the "pneumati" as an "attitude" or "spirit" of unity among the church members rather than as a personal reference to the Holy Spirit? What are the other uses of pneuma/pneumati that would support you in this usage?

    Secondly if that is true (water baptism instead of spirit baptism), are believers that have not yet been water baptized not a part of the body
    of Christ (since we are baptized into one body)?If not, then does that not open a door to water regeneration (i.e., you must be baptized in water to be a part of the body)? If so, then how does your understanding of this passage fit in?

    It seems like seeing this as water baptism implies the following:
    1. You cannot be a part of the body of Christ without water baptism and hence you cannot be saved without it (unless you have saved people in this age that are not a part of teh body).
    2. You cannot have transfer membership into another local body without being rebaptized (since there is only local bodies and the only way to get in is by water baptism).
    3. You cannot have spiritual gifts until you have been water baptized (since the passage is about spiritual gifts in the body and the unity they should bring rather than division).

    I would think the burden is on you to:
    1. Show that pneumati is an attitude rather than a person;
    2. Show that the "en" is used in teh matter you say it is.
     
  13. DocCas

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    No. I am saying that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was a one time event which took place in the book of Acts and has never been repeated.
     
  14. C.S. Murphy

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    No. I am saying that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was a one time event which took place in the book of Acts and has never been repeated.</font>[/QUOTE]I'll have to think about my answer but when you say one time event what about Jesus giving the Spirit in the locked room. I must still be missing the point.
    Murph
     
  15. DocCas

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    I am talking about spirit baptism, not spirit receiving, giving, indwelling, moving, etc.
     
  16. Bible-belted

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    I am talking about spirit baptism, not spirit receiving, giving, indwelling, moving, etc.</font>[/QUOTE]You are obciously using a definition of that term that no one else here is. I venture to guess that you here the term andthink charismatic excess.

    That would, at least for myself, be inaccurrate. Ther is, I believe, a biblical doctrine of spirit baptism that does not lead to teh excesses you seem to fear.
     
  17. DocCas

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    Once the ad hominem starts I bow out. If you want to characterize my faith as "fear" and my cognitive abilities as being lacking to the point of not being able to distinguish between baptists who have a flawed understanding of the ministry of the Holy Spirit and charismatic excess, fine. have it your way. And, if you do not distinguish between "baptism," "indwelling," "filling," etc., then there is little reason to continue.
     
  18. HankD

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    My view is this: (Yes, I agree Doc). The baptism "in" the Holy Spirit was a one time event.
    It was locative "in" not instrumental "with".
    This baptism of Jesus Christ of the Body of Christ in the Holy Spirit was the initial act which made all the subsequent ministries of the Holy Spirit possible (indwelling, filling, annointing, spiritual gifts) in the Church(es).

    HankD

    [ September 12, 2002, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]
     
  19. VoiceInTheWilderness

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    Baptism by The Spirit and The Initial filling of The Spirit are one in the same.

    The only place in The New Testament where the Baptism of the Spirit ever took place was at pentecost. God was simply giving His seal of endorsement to His first church in the sight of all those present.
     
  20. DocCas

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    So, baptism and filling are the same thing? When you were baptized in water were you filled with water? Were you in the water or was the water in you? [​IMG]
     

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