Does The Cross ACTUALLY Save. or is It Only 'Potentially saves?"

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, May 18, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    Is it true that Calvinist see that the Cross actually DID save a certain group of peoples for God, while Arms see it as being "Just Potentaially" that potentially NONE could yet be saved by the Cross?
     
  2. revmwc

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    Not sure what they teach but the "CROSS" itself does nothing, it was the method of the Saviours death, It is Christ Effacacious Work on that Cross that brings salvation.
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    The bible teaches that Jesus came to actually save those the father gave to Him... He did this perfectly by His active and passive obedience.

    Calvinists see this as clearly taught in scripture...and By God given faith believe God and his word. Those believers who believe these truths are at different levels of spiritual growth,so from time to time you will see some differences.....that are being studied through...but for the most part they all come to the same conclusions based on scripture.

    Others look at their bible and see parts of it,believe parts of it, but sort of cut and paste and seperate the scripture making it into a confusing and fragmentated teaching that is all over the place.
    Some are a bit more consistent than others....others insert philosophical and emotional human reasoning into ,and in between the verses that cause confuscion in their own minds,and those they inflict these ideas on.

    Some of these are very sincere,have come to truth in many areas....yet once they have gone done a mis-guided path..it takes alot of work to recover themselves .
    If this second group is honest , they will admit that at prayer meeting they agree with the first group 100% when in prayer they ask God if it be possible could you convict my unsaved family members of their sin,and draw them savingly to the blood of the cross. They know when they pray that unless God something to their unsaved relatives, they will perish!
    they do not say......I know that you can do no more for grandma...it is up to her to use her free -will....you have done all that you can are just hoping somewhere somebody believes something about the gospel???
    No...when it comes to prayer time ...everyone believes what the first group believes...if they are honest
     
  4. JesusFan

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    The Cross to me means the totality of the atoning work done by Christ...

    And I tend also to see the atoning as being done at the Cross, and ratified by the Resurrection, for IF Jesus would have stayed dead and buried, his death would have been for naught!
     
  5. Skandelon

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    Technically, no.

    There were men like Abraham who believed God and it was "credited to him as righteousness," even prior to the cross. Does that mean Abraham didn't need his sins atoned for since he had already believed? Obviously not. Thus, the cross actually did save those like Abraham, Rahab, and others prior to the cross. And it provided the means through which all future generations might be saved. The bible presents salvation as a potentiality, thus non-Cals do not stand without support on this point. "If/Then" statements along with "might" verbiage are used throughout the text in describing the salvation of man. John testified that he wrote his book so that men MIGHT believe and be saved.
     
  6. JesusFan

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    but the calvinist would say that whenever the Gospel is preached, God WILL do the work of saving His elected ones, causing them to come to Christ through the preaching, while ALL an Arminian can hope for is that some "might"?
     
  7. Skandelon

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    Even Cals admit they don't know who is and who is not elect, so they preach the hope that some might respond.

    The difference is that scripture speaks of "persuasion" and "becoming all things to all men in order to win some," which typically fits the non-Cals perspective better than the Cals.
     
  8. convicted1

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    The cross was/is the means by which any of us are saved. Jesus took EVERY sin that is past/present/future upon His body, and nailed them to the cross in His body!!

    John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


    1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

    This is what happens when you recognize God as who He really is, but fail to glorify Him:

    Rom. 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

    19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

    20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

    Jesus made the way "passable and possible", but only those who choose to exercise the faith given to them by God, will be saved.

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     
  9. convicted1

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    Remember back in the OT days, the atonement that was offered, was offered for ALL of Israel, and not just some. Only those who chose to believe, got the benefit of that atonement.

    Much like today. The atonement that Jesus made on the cross, was for all. Only those who choose to believe, will the atonement be applied to.

    i am I AM's!!

    Willis
     

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