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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JesusFan, Nov 3, 2011.
Or is it still teaching saved by BOTH faith and works of the Flesh?
Jesus divides professing Christendom into two basic categories in regard to their concept of the way of salvation (Mt. 7:13-14). One way is very broad and inclusive and contains the majority of professing Christendom ("many" v. 13 "many" v. 22). while the other way is very narrow and exclusive and contains only a "few" of professing Christendom.
Rome's gospel when it comes to its bottom line, is no different than every Christian cultic gospel and indeed no different than every pagan way of salvation and thus inclusive of the majority of professing Christendom and paganism. Faith plus works in order to get into heaven or as its advocates state it:
"Lord, Lord.....have we not done many wonderful works."
This mixture of faith and works is "sand" rather than the solid rock of Jesus Christ and his works alone that justify the believer.
The majority of Christendom is no differen than the majority of pagan religion upon planet earth - same basic formula - faith in some kind of God plus good works to achieve their defined kind of salvation.
However, in contrast, the way to heaven has a strait gate - "I am the door" - Jesus. The way to heaven is narrow - "I am the way" - Jesus and the works required are a whole life of SINLESS works where not one point of the Law has been violated and where not one time in the entire life has ever "come short of the glory of God - the life and works of Jesus. Those "few" who receive this gospel are "saved" by Christ by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone having been created "in Christ" Jesus by regeneration, indwelt by the Holy Spirit and then progressively set apart by the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit unto good works which God has already before ordained they should walk in according to the measure of faith and grace given every individual saint conforming them to the image of Christ by a process that never succeeds until glorification at the resurrection when not one is ever lost.
Having read most of the new Catholic Catechism, I am convinced that Catholic doctrine is very "Christian." They probably have the same percentage of "real" Christians as the Protestants.
Does Rome still call damned those who say that we are saved by faith in jesus alone, and that IF we deny the mass as being literal body and blood let him be accursed?
If we deny the RCC as true Church, or if salvation outside Mother Church. let him be damned?
they have NEVER repudiated any of that!
WORST heretic to RCC would be those who knew their doctrines. and turned away to get "born again" and changed church...
They have more support in their theology to have Muslims saved than a person like that!
If "Christian" is defined by biblical essentials and characteristics there is NOTHING "Christian" about the gospel they preach and therefore, anyone saved in that denomination is saved IN SPITE OF the gospel they preach.
As a believer in divine election, would say that the Lord would save out from among thier Church whosoever He wills, but due to His will, NOT due to their teachings!
Still think the RCC NEVER refuted/changed their Council of Trent , as their response to the Reformation!
No. But they clarified what they meant.
And yes the catholic Church teaches the true gospel of Jesus Christ.
Their "Gospel" denies though the truth of saved by grace alone faith alone, they are based upon part Grace, part sacramental part good works...
NOT the "true" Gospel of Christ!
As a former Roman Catholic, it is not a Christian religion.
They deny we are saved by Grace Alone through Faith Alone in Christ Alone and that we should rely upon the Scriptures alone for the Glory of God alone. They once believed only Roman Catholics could be saved, now they believe in a form of universalism.
The Pope does not forgive sins, nor does the Pope release people from purgatory. Mary does not absolve sins and we do not become saints after death.
The RCC Always had a problem with us being imputed from God rightousness, being declared rightous due to the work of Christ on our behalf, as they hold still that we have to get 'right enough" to be able to have God declare us saved!
get there by faith , taking mass and all other sacraments, and even than never knowing if did 'well enough" to avoid Purgetory!
Protestants, the practical argument is this; the approach that you Protestants suggest just doesn't work, it has never worked and never will work. It leads to chaos. A cursory survey of the history of Protestatism shows this as incontrovertibly as any fact of history. For the various Protestantisms don't merely vary[ Catholicism has a lot of variety ] They often flatly contradict one another [ all with the claim that the Holy Spirit is leading them to assert flatly contradictory things ] . That's the real litmus test, God does not contradict Himself . Me and my Bible interpretations frequently do. So other things [ including Popes, theologians , councils, and the Sacred Tradition of the Church] are necessary too. After all Jesus/God wasn't kidding when He told His Apostles the following ; " He who hears you , hears me ; and he who rejects you, rejects me; and he who rejects me, rejects him who sent me " [ Luke 10: 16 ] Apostolic Church Traditional Teaching [ God made Traditions [ large T ] not the traditions [ small t ] of mere-men as in sola scriptura ]
What denomination are you? (christian church is not a denomination, surprised an administrator approved your membership)
you sound like a roman catholic.
i am not a protestant, I am a Baptist, and Baptists are NOT protestants
His church is only 30 miles from my house. The vast majority of Mainers are Catholic. Here they pretty much consider themselves the only legitimate church, all the others are unbiblical. And they think that all the others are protestant, which is not true at all.
Sorry, but we baptist ARE protestants. It's not as if there were baptist churches meeting for 1000 years alongside the RCC. we are a product of the reformation.
Baptists roots go all the back to the second century.
Part of the problem is that even if you say the official RCC church documents are orthodox (which I would disagree with); You still have the vast majority of catholics who are taught a works righteousness with a bit of mysticism mixed in.
Case in point:
-Because of their beliefs in the sanctifying and even salvific effects of the euchurists; That is the main reason many of them attend mass. I have seen this first hand, in that after the communion was served (which is about 10-15 minutes before the end of an hour-long service) after everyone goes forward to get their wafer and drink...I estimate that about 10% of the people did not return to their seats, but snuck out the side and back doors. It was really eye opening! They got their wafer, so they were good for the week.
I realize we baptists can be guilty of similar hipocracy, but in this case it is the result of their actual teaching on what the communion does.
" We believe that the Baptists are the original Christians. We did not commence our existence at the reformation, we were reformers before Luther and Calvin were born; we never came from the Church of Rome, for we were never in it, but we have an unbroken line up to the apostles themselves. We have always existed from the days of Christ, and our principles, sometimes veiled and forgotten, like a river which may travel under ground for a little season, have always had honest and holy adherents. Persecuted alike by Romanists and Protestants of almost every sect, yet there has never existed a Government holding Baptist principles which persecuted others; nor, I believe, any body of Baptists ever held it to be right to put the consciences of others under the control of man. We have ever been ready to suffer, as our martyrologies will prove, but we are not ready to accept any help from the State, to prostitute the purity of the Bride of Christ to any alliance with Government, and we will never make the Church, although the Queen, the despot over the consciences of men." —Charles H. Spurgeon
It's the only reason any of them ever attend mass. Without the Eucharist it would not be a mass. One man's "mysticism" is another's belief that the Bible means what it says. It's also the belief that miracles really do happen all the time.
As far as leaving early is concerned, Baptists also have that 10% who leave during the first verse of the invitation hymn. You see this especially in the bigger churches where you can slip out without being noticed by everyone else.
Best thing someone who believes in Calvinism ever said.