Does your church have a nursery and

Not trying to argue here, just wondering is all.

Can you provide Scripture that shows children in church services?



As for my church, we have a nursery and kids programs. Only nursery is provided for Sunday night and all other children are expected in the church service on that night. We don't forbid or discourage anyone from bringing their child into any service however.

 

...or women? (talking early church here)

 

I think women are easily supported. Acts 8:3, 1 Corinthians 16:19 and Romans 16:1-5.

 

That was the established church, I'm talking about believers worshiping in the temple, the birth of the church.

 

AMEN!!!!!

We have a small church, we run around 50 each Sunday morning and average anywhere from 2 to 10 or 12 children and infants. We're growing our church...from the nursery up!

 

And I would add that, when we do, "children's church" and "youth group" are more about entertainment and moralistic messages than the preaching of the Gospel.

When are we supposed to start training our children to think seriously about the things of God? Too many church refuse to train up children. They'd rather just shut them off in a room and show them flannel graph pictures of Noah with a bunch of smiling animals and a giraffe poking his head out of the roof.

Why can't we start teaching our children from birth? My three year old already knows a lot of the Westminster Shorter Catechism. She doesn't know all of the big words, but she knows the answers. We teach them the principles and then fill in the big words later.

It's OK to use big words and teach children big concepts like regeneration, expiation, redemption, propitiation, adoption, reconciliation, justification, sanctification and glorification. If they don't know what the words mean, then they'll ask you.

For goodness' sake, Charles Spurgeon was preaching sermons at 16 and the average 16 year old in an American church today can't even articulate the Gospel. "Well, there's like a God shaped hole in your heart and God wants us to have abundant life or something and all you have to do is say this prayer and Jesus will be your bestest buddy."

Like I asked rbell, if our goal is to gradually get ease them into "big church", how long does that take? How old are they when that happens?

One thing I've learned as a parent, a teacher, a youth worker, a pastor, and a mentor to children: Children are far smarter than we give them credit for and they will meet the goals we set for them. If you set those goals low, then they'll aim low and hit their target every time. If you set them high, they will amaze you.

Your choice: baby them or train them up.

 

JohnDeereFan,

So then is your objection to children's church and youth programs that they are shallow? Or the programs themselves? What if children's church and the youth programs aren't shallow? What if they are training up children properly and teaching the full Gospel?

 

We allow young children in our worship services but provide childcare during those times for parents who serve, attend Bible studies, and/or attend worship services. During this time we have specific, age appropriate programming for children in other venues.

We don't discourage parents from taking their children to church with them.

We don't have a scheduled dismissal of children during the services.

Absolutely.

It depends on the family. One of the best things that I ever experienced growing up was the discipline and focus of sitting through the entire worship service (including preaching) with my parents. That said I also see immense value in providing Bible teaching and other worship opportunities for children outside of the main service.

Here's what we do (at the church where I get to serve): We have a large children's and student's facilities that provide avenues for them to receive age appropriate worship and teaching venues. We don't discourage parents from dropping their kids (or students) off at either but also are happy to have them in services. During the kids teaching and worship times we have age specific worship activities that teach our kids how to worship and lessons that begin their Christian discipleship at a young age. We teach them from the earliest ages that Jesus gives us the greatest gift ever through His sacrifice and love for us. It's what we do. We think it works for our context. We also have a Bible study group (a good sized one) that is a family ministry oriented group. They attend worship together with kids, then a Bible study with their kids. Its a great group.

Apologies for the delay in replying, I'm out of pocket this week.

 

Um...first grade. It's in the post.

And I'm assuming your "biblical model" is explained in the Book of Hesitations.

 

Nice, self-righteous post. Stunningly ignorant of what God is doing in many churches as well.

Last Wednesday night, ten students from our youth group made commitments to Christ and are following Him in baptism.

We are actively discipling these kids. Many of them are the only Christians in their households. This year, over seventy (!) of our students will actively serve in ministry projects from Nashville to Jelsava, Slovakia. Over fifty of our students will assist with our VBS--including ten lead teachers.

How does that jive with your "entertainment" take?

 

We have both a nursery and a children's church. Nothing is more irritating than a mother with a screaming child who doesn't have sense enough to take them out of the church service till they calm down.

 

I think that would be a great start, but there still isn't any precedent in scripture for segregating by age. In fact, in the only example I can think of by segregating by age, Jesus rebuked those doing the segregating.

 

First of all, there is no "Book of Hesitations" but I don't blame you for not knowing that.

Second, it's explained in numerous places throughout the New Testament.

Actually, it's not self righteous at all. It's a statement of fact. I'm hardly the only person who has pointed this out. Voddie Baucham, Keven Swanson, Russell Moore, Paul Washer, Todd Friel, David Wheaton, Mike Abendroth, Michael Horton, Scott Brown, and many others have all pointed out the same thing.

It's a sad, sad phenomenon in the church.

Actually, I never said it was all churches. In fact, I can point to many churches where it is not the case. But, sadly, those churches are the exception and not the rule.

If it's legitimate, then that's great.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to them and cannot ask them some basic questions about their testimony or how they would articulate the Gospel or about their understanding of elementary Christian doctrines.

Given that "jive" means something that is not true or something that is a scam, I think it jives just fine.

 

Can you provide citations?

 

I can, but I'm reluctant to because, frankly, I don't trust you and I don't believe you're asking sincerely.

What, specifically, do you want to know.

 

You can't provide citations for Scripture that back up your position because you don't trust me? Are we part of the Catholic Church where you must hide the Bible from the common masses? That is the most absurd statement I've heard in a long time.

At this point, you can go and jump off a bridge for all I care. You stated a position that you felt with Biblical. Generally I agree with your positions, but in this case it was unsure so I asked for Scripture. You say there is Scripture, yet refuse to produce it. Who does that make untrustworthy?

 

See? This is precisely what I'm talking about. You asked me to provide examples and I was perfectly willing to do so, in spite of my feelings about you and yet, when I did take that first step to trust you and ask you what, specifically you wanted to know, this is how you react.

The Bible is a big book, Matt. And there are hundreds of verses that speak to this. The fact that it's simply not practical for me to show you every single one aside, without knowing what it was you were asking, how in the world am I supposed to know which ones to show you?

I was only asking you to narrow down your question so I could answer it more succinctly. But now you've shown that my suspicions were correct.

How is asking you to clarify your question so that I know what passage to show you to better answer your question "hiding the Bible"?

Which one? The one where I asked you to clarify your question so I could answer it in detail and not just in vague generalities? Or the one where you put words in my mouth and compared me to the Catholic Church?

So let me get this straight: It's fine for you to ask for scripture because you're unsure, but if I'm unsure of what you're asking and ask you to clarify, that's wrong?

Not only did I never refuse to produce it, I even asked you to clarify your question so that I would better know what to produce in order to answer your question in detail.

And then you get mad because I don't trust any of you.

Out of curiousity, what do you think, "What, specifically, do you want to know" means? Personally, I think it means, "I don't understand what you're asking. Could you please clarify for me". Obviously, you have some other interpretation.

 

Nice way to avoid the entire part of your post that set the tone. Let me report it for you:

When you start your post off like that, how is someone supposed to take it? According to you, we should take it that you simply need clarfication on the question. The next time one of your kids as your for clarification by saying, "Dad, I don't trust you and don't believe you are asking sincerely.", let me know how that works out.

Here's you clarification, I'll repost what I asked in post 21 on this thread. It was very clear.

 

Yeah, by all means, report me.

And when you respond the way you did to somebody who is trying to answer your question, how is someone supposed to take it.

The difference is that my children know I will always be respectful and sincere with them.

You, on the other hand, were just looking to trap me so that you could attack me.

You had your chance. Not only did I give you an opportunity to make your question more clear, but I even took you off my ignore list precisely so that we could have a conversation about this.

And what do you do? Not only did you refuse to try to clarify your question, thus showing that asking the question was never your intent in the first place, you attacked me.

Next time you have a question, don't ask me because I've learned my lesson about trying to talk to you.

 

A bad time for a typo. I didn't mean I was going to "report" it, but "repost" it for you.

Maybe you have had bad experiences in the past. When I posted previously that I wasn't trying to argue but was simply curious, I meant it. Like I said, I generally agree with your positions on things, but hadn't heard this particular position before and needed some clarification. I feel sad for you if you go through life with this much fear of people asking questions. I thought it was a reasonable question I asked. I asked simply because I was interested in your answer and thought I might learn something. I have learned something, but it certainly wasn't about whether or not there is a Biblical model for children in the church service.