Doesn't hebrews 7:25 prove OSAS is the truth?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Yeshua1, Nov 29, 2013.

  1. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

    Nasv Hebrews 7:25

    IF jesus would cease to my high priest, than could lose it somehow, but since his priesthood is final and for all eternity towards the redeemed?
     
  2. BobRyan

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    The defense for OSAS is based in false dichotomy as noted above.

    "Either Jesus is not able to save anyone - or OSAS must be imagined to be true".

    But those are not the choices we have in scripture.

    In the Bible it is the "fully forgiven" that experience "forgiveness revoked" - yet not all will choose to be the ungrateful servant as the OSAS argument seems to assume.

    Without the man-made tradition of OSAS - you still have the "faithful" and the "faithless" among the saints.

    Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]



    Matt 6

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


    But the Faithless -- and ungrateful among the saints are getting a pretty serious warning about what will happen to them.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    can jesus lose ANY saved by the Cross, when he always lives to always intercede before the father on their behalf?

    And what will seperate us from the love of God towards us in Christ, to those saved by his grace/mercy, per paul in Romans?

    NOTHING
     
  4. evangelist-7

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    Greetings, Yeshua numero 1 ... What you have written is idiotic!

    This verse is talking about the wise BACs ...
    "those who draw near to God through Him" on a continual basis!

    The verse is NOT talking about this happening just ONCE @ the time of being born-again!

    Notice that even though BACs continually "draw near to God through Him",
    they constantly need Jesus "to make intercession for them".

    Yes, He will gladly do this for the BAC who regularly repents of his sins (1 John 1:7-10).

    May I go back to snoozing again?

    .
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    there is NO distinction made in hebrews though, as Jesus lives to forever intercede on behalf of the saved, and he keeps ALL saved by Grace of God!

    Due to him being the immortal high priest, none can ever be lost, as NONE will ever get beyond his power to intercede on their behalf with God, as he is now our advocate!
     
  6. steaver

    steaver
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    Absolutely! But this is hid to those who oppose the Grace of Jesus Christ being sufficient to secure His children, and go about to draw attention to their own good works to save them.

    This is just one of hundreds of passages which speaks to God's promises to never reject a child once saved.

    Good scripture brother!! :thumbsup:
     
  7. steaver

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    According to yourself and BobRyan, BAC's do not break the commandments of God, correct? So why would a BAC need to repent??
     
  8. BobRyan

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    As it turns out - God explains that pretty well in Matt 18 and Matt 6.


    Without the man-made tradition of OSAS - you still have the "faithful" and the "faithless" among the saints.

    Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]



    Matt 6

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
     
  9. steaver

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    This cannot be for it contradicts your preaching that the Saints of God do not break God's commandments. Thus, there is no such thing as a Saint not forgiving one another.
     
  10. evangelist-7

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    Note (again) that Paul wrote his epistle to the Ephesians only to the faithful ...

    “Paul, an apostle (special messenger) of Christ Jesus (the Messiah),
    by the divine will (the purpose and the choice of God)
    to the saints (the consecrated, set-apart ones) at Ephesus
    who are also faithful and loyal and steadfast in Christ Jesus: …” (Eph 1:1, Amp)


    So, we have a News Flash ...
    All of the great promises in Ephesians were ONLY for certain ones in the church!
    The udders (like some of you) were totally SOL.

    .
     
  11. BobRyan

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    If the only way for a free will being to choose anything other than a perfect choice - is for God to "Fail" (as OSAS likes to put it) then you have "circular reasoning" used to support OSAS and nothing more.

    But if God sovereignly chooses the "whosoever will" model instead of the "master robot-maker" with "better living through better programming" ideas of Calvinism - then it is possible for a free will being to make a choice that is not "ideal".

    Incredibly obvious - but when dealing with OSAS and Calvinism that is what must be stated.

    Thus when Christ describes the perfect proof that OSAS is flawed - we do not simply turn a blind eye to it in favor the man-made tradition of OSAS.

    Without the man-made tradition of OSAS - you still have the "faithful" and the "faithless" among the saints.

    Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]



    Matt 6

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


    In the example above the Faithless -- and ungrateful among the saints are getting a pretty serious warning about what will happen to them.

    A warning that man-made traditions like OSAS say "should not exist".

    And that is a "clue" for anyone not married to OSAS over the Bible - that something is amiss.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

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    It contradicts your 'game' but it does not contradict the Bible statement "'Here is the perseverance of the saints - here are they that KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

    You argue the self-conflicted argument that if they must persevere then the Bible texts that speak of perseverance must not be true. You argue that if they have any other choice but perfect obedience then the Bible texts that speak about the saints obeying - must be ignored.

    Your "gaming the text" but what about "accepting the text" of scripture?

    When does that come in?

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. steaver

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    If there is a 'game' it would have to be yours since you are the one preaching two opposing doctrines. You say a BAC keeps God's commandments, and then you say a BAC sins. It appears you do not understand what it means for a BAC to keep God's commandments. Either you keep them or you sin, which is it?
     
  14. steaver

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    That it should be "Ignored" or that it should be interpreted correctly with the full counsel of God's Word??? There is no problem with any bible text, so the problem lies with your preaching it incorrectly.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]



    Matt 6

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

    By contrast the Bible says --

    "'Here is the perseverance of the saints - here are they that KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

    In the example above the Faithless -- and ungrateful among the saints are getting a pretty serious warning about what will happen to them.

    A warning that man-made traditions like OSAS say "should not exist".

    And that is a "clue" for anyone not married to OSAS over the Bible - that something is amiss.





    Is that Rev 14:12 text - "ME" saying that?

    "'Here is the perseverance of the saints - here are they that KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

    Is this how you play "your game"? When the scripture is quoted you then claim it is "ME" as the author of the WORD of God??

    Really?

    That flies with some Baptists??

    Your argument is "with the text" -- obviously.

    Hint: Read the actual posts.

    We don't see you "exegeting Rev 14:12" or Matt 18, or Matt 8 at all.

    I quote them - and point to obvious "details in the text" that OSAS "needs to ignore".

    And when you respond in an effort to prop up the man-made tradition of OSAS you do so by "ignoring the details in the text" that are in bold and highlight.

    You respond by 'gaming the text' not by exegeting the actual "inconvenient details" found IN the text.

    This is incredibly obvious for all to see.

    And we both know it.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #15 BobRyan, Dec 5, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2013
  16. evangelist-7

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    Yes, exegeting around here is just twisting and/or ignoring the Scriptures
    in order to further the Satanic doctrine of OSAS.

    Totally deceived? ... or ... liars and deceivers?

    .
     
  17. steaver

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    The satanic angel Moroni declared to Joseph Smith that ye are saved by grace AFTER ye do all that ye can do.

    You need the fear of God within you, to equate Jesus' promises with satan is no light thing.

    And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    Repent my dear friend, before it's too late! :praying:
     
  18. BobRyan

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    Talk about a post devoid of scripture but filled with "Joseph Smith".

    Why not embrace "all the details" in the posts on the Bible that you are so carefully avoiding Steaver?

    For example - -

    Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

    [FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]



    Matt 6

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
    14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

    15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


    In the example above the Faithless -- and ungrateful among the saints are getting a pretty serious warning about what will happen to them.

    A warning that man-made traditions like OSAS say "should not exist".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  19. steaver

    steaver
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    You have been thoroughly biblically rebuked by many here on this board including myself concerning this heresy of "forgiveness revoked" which flies directly in the face of Jesus Christ and His atoning work on the cross. And yet you refuse any correction. So what are we to do? Continue to repeat ourselves over and over as though somehow repetition will cause you to see? Your blindness with Matt 18 is between you and the Holy Spirit, all I can do is pray for you. I pray you will one day see it is all about Jesus Christ, and NOT about YOU!!

    As far as E7 is concerned....

    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
  20. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    You baptized with the Holy Spirit?
    Received any of the 9 spiritual power gifts in 1 Cor 12?
    Been appointed to one of the 5 ministerial positions in Eph 4:11?

    No, no, and no!
    That means you're spiritually lacking, i.e. there's a whole lot more to be had.

    .
     

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