Don't Armeniens/Calvinists BOTh Teach Grace/Faith Alone ?

No.

There is a fundamental difference in the Calvinist and Noncalvinist view of the condition of man, which is a result of their fundamentally different views of God and the nature of the Atonement. One cannot know God, and not know himself at the same time. It's one's view of God that determines his view of man.

The Calvinist teaches that man in his unregenerated state is utterly incapable of responding in faith to the Word of God. The Noncalvinist, whether he be Methodist or Mormon, teaches the exact opposite.

Since the views of the condition of man are different, so are their views of the nature and efficacy of the Atonement, and their views of Christ and His mission, and finally their views of the Father and His will.

They may use the same terms, but their meanings are diametrically opposed.

Calvinism is the Gospel. Anything else is not.

 

I think it fits. Saving me was a violent act.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .for I
Except You enslave me, never shall be free,
Nor ever chaste, except You ravish me. —John Donne

 

Well, I think it is as plain as the nose on your face that she gave her consent.

Could she have refused? I believe so.

But a Calvinist will use the false argument that she didn't refuse which shows she had to irresistably consent. This is a false argument because it is unprovable. Just because a person chooses to decide one way does not prove thay could not choose another option.


This is one of the false and illogical arguments Calvinists often employ.

 

I like Sproul, but as I posted before, I don't care who originated the expression, I'm still horrified by it.

I also understand what Aaron was saying with his quote of John Donne, but it's still a little jarring.

 

I am sorry Winman. You are right. R.C.Sproul did you use the offensive termin a positive sense. Perry Miller first used it in a negative waywhen he spoke of Jonathan Edwards. I still repudiate that terrible saying. I'm with Tom Butler on that.

 

The famous Anglo-Roman Catholic -- C.S.Lewis said that he "was dragged kicking and screaming into the kingdom of God.' Those were the words not of a Calvinist,but those of an Arminian!

 

I don't mean to be rude, but where do you get your information? God forces us?????

The bible teaches that we are unable to come to Jesus unless the Father draws us. God doesn't "Force us", but rathers gives us the desire and ability to love Him. Without that intervention our "Wills are SLAVES TO SIN and are unable to please God".

If God had grace on Hitler, Hitler would have loved the Lord.

Sorry, I just wish people would know both sides of the argument before making these misleading statements.

 

Bob, you are somewhat incorrect here. While I agree there are some who are misinformed there are a few here on the BB, who are reformed AND THEY STATE -yes, God does force you

 

Thanks. I do expect much, for I fought the doctrines of grace for years, wrote papers and a book called "Intrinsic Autonomy", ANYTHING to grant myself the kingship mode that synergists hold to.

This is why I have much mercy on synergists, and don't call them heretics. Who knows, God uses us, the means to bring people into a God glorifying state, so let's be ever dilligent with the knowledge God has given us to bring our brothers into the truth.

 

They can state what they wish, since when does subjectivism matter?

To state that God "Forces" someone, (No offense), is total ignorance. Isn't it the synergist who prays "Oh Lord, change their heart"?

And who says it's a bad thing for God to put into man, out of mercy, a desire to love Him, to love and delight in good?

It's amazing that some would say "Oh, according to Calvinism, God forces man, whether he wants it or not to love good"!

Ask Paul, who was worse than Hitler, on the road to Damacus to kill Christians if he regrets that the Lord elected him!!!!!!

Oh, the mercy that is missed, the King of Kings pours out His love to change us, so that we are no longer a slave, a slave to sin, but that we now desire Him!

 

Name one. I bet you can't provide a single quote.

I do not believe that God forces anybody to come to Christ or or forces men to do most anything else. And I have not read a single one who has said such a silly thing.

You nameless theology guys need to debate us rather than strawmen.

 

LOL.. I think you misunderstood.. I said "there are a few here on the BB, who are reformed AND THEY STATE -yes, God does force you

 

Bob, do you really have to go on these anti-arminian rants on each thread instead of adding something constructive to the discussions? Shouldn't we expect more from an administrator...what kind of example does that set for a new member?