double-minded question

Notice that Robertson also said the following about “built up” in Colossians 2:7:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/RobertsonsWordPictures/rwp.cgi?book=col&chapter=2&verse=7

In your view, they are not “rooted to stay so.” Here’s what Webster’s New Collegiate Dictionary (1973) says about the verb “root”:

Remember that “rooted” is a passive form in both Ephesians 3:17 and Colossians 2:7. In a passive form the subject does perform the action. It’s not about our growing roots ourselves. Whatever “rooted” means, it’s something that God does to us. It’s not a matter of lucky or unlucky circumstances over time. God is in firm control. My impression is that He implants us. That can be done quickly. For instance, a seedling can be taken from a hotbed and implanted (rooted) somewhere else. Remember that I said in an earlier post that the Hebrew word “shathal” used in Psalm 1:3a and Jeremiah 17:8a can mean “to plant” or “to transplant.”

 

Oops! I misspoke when I said, “In a passive form the subject does perform the action.” Of course, in a passive form the subject does not perform the action. The action is performed on the subject. In the case of our being rooted and grounded (founded), God performed the action of rooting and grounding (founding). I don’t see where I wrongly quoted A.T. Robertson. He said that Christians are “rooted to stay so.” He was a professor at The Southern Baptist Seminary in Louisville and believed in eternal security, so I think his interpretation is clear. I believe that all Christians are permanently rooted and grounded; therefore, they cannot be rooted up (plucked up). John 10:28-29 says that no one can pluck Christians out of His hand. Notice what Robertson said about John 10:28:

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/RobertsonsWordPictures/rwp.cgi?book=joh&chapter=10&verse=28

You seem to be saying that the idea of transplanting was foreign to the folks in the New Testament. Remember that the word used for “plant” (shathal) in Psalm 1:3a and Jeremiah 17:8a can also mean “transplant.”

Craig, you said that the case was closed. Usually the lawyers are able to make a final summary argument before the jury renders its verdict. (I’m not sure who the members of the jury are; maybe all of them have lost interest by now.) Here goes:

1. We both agree that the verbs “rooted” and “grounded” in Ephesians 3:17 are passive forms. I think we agree that the passive form indicates that Christians do not root themselves. You said:

You also said:

Who or what controls the environmental factors that you say positively or negatively determine the rooting? Do you believe the controller to be God, Satan, chance, other humans, or some combination? It’s my impression that Christians live in a sinful environment that is unfavorable for rooting: “Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul” (1 Peter 2:11). The rooting has to be supernatural (from God); natural rooting (from the environment without God) is impossible. As John 10:28 indicates, nothing in the environment can cause the Christian to be plucked (uprooted) from God’s hand.

I think that God is the one who rooted and grounded Christians. Paul was writing to the “saints who are at Ephesus” (Ephesians 1:1). They were all rooted and grounded. There were and are no Christians who are not rooted and grounded. If God isn’t the one who has rooted us, then such fleshly roots won’t be enough to preserve any Christians.

2. We both agree that the verbs “rooted” and “grounded” are perfect passive participles. I have seen no evidence that they are intensive perfects. The normal type of action of the perfect tense is completed action in past time with a continuing result. The rooting and grounding have been completed and have a continuing, permanent result. I earlier used this quote from Brooks and Winbery:

I also used some quotes from Drumwright that said the perfect participle preserves this aspect:

Thus, the rooting is a completed action with a permanent result. God rooted us permanently.

The defense rests (unless an appeal becomes necessary).

 

Appeal Number One

First, a quick sidebar conference: Comparing me to the Pharisees is a personal attack. You also said:

Thus, you have personally attacked me twice. I think the Judge would rule these attacks out of order due to irrelevancy. I am not on trial here. The doctrine of eternal security is on trial. Such attacks will not affect me. On another forum I have been called a heretic, so I have developed a thick skin. I have never called another person a heretic when I debated them. Personal attacks on lawyers do not usually sway juries.

Let’s return to the courtroom.

Craig, you said the following:

I have not seen any passage in the Bible that explicitly says Christians can lose their salvation. Neither have I seen any historical proof over 2,000 years that any Christian has lost his salvation. If you want to present anything that you consider to be inductive evidence to the court, I will cross-examine.

You also said the following:

I have explained the nature of the perfect tense. It generally describes completed action with a continuing, permanent result. Our salvation is a completed action with a continuing, permanent result.

Other evidence to be examined:

During the regeneration event a person becomes a new creature: “Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). He is a new creature because he has been indwelled by the Holy Spirit. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit produces an instantaneous change in the human spirit. A Christian may backslide, but he will never fully return to the old things. The Christian is truly an everlasting creation of God. The old things have passed away and cannot be restored.

The Bible says that Christians have received the Holy Spirit as a seal and as a pledge:

In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:13-14)

Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge. (2 Corinthians 1:21-22)

And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

The seal refers to a mark of approval. God the Father set His seal on God the Son (John 6:27). The Holy Spirit indwells the human spirits of Christians as a pledge of eternal life. In this context, the pledge is a spiritual down payment or earnest money, a guarantee that the Christian will go to heaven. His inheritance is imperishable and is reserved in heaven for him (1 Peter 1:4).

Christians can know for certain that they have been adopted by God and have eternal life:

The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God. (Romans 8:16)

And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. (1 John 5:11-13)

Christians do not receive eternal life when they physically die; they receive it at the regeneration event. John 3:36 says, “He who believes in the Son has eternal life.” Eternal life is life that cannot be lost. Thus, those who have eternal life cannot lose their salvation.

The Bible says that nothing (no environmental influences) can separate Christians from God’s love:

For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)

If Christians can never be separated from God’s love, then we must acknowledge the impossibility of their being burned in the lake of fire for an eternity: “And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15). The names of the elect, however, have been written in the book of life “from the foundation of the world” (Revelation 13:8, 17:8). Thus, Christians have eternal security. They are indeed everlasting creations.

Craig, you said:

Matthew 7:22-27 tells us that the house founded upon the rock will not fall, regardless of whatever cataclysmic environmental situation occurs. Those that fall were never known by God, according to Matthew 7:22-23.

Craig, you said the following:

There’s no evidence that “rooted” and “grounded” (founded) in Ephesians 3:17 are intensive presents. There’s no reason to assume that they are not standard perfect participles. Notice what Brooks and Winbery said about the permanent result from perfect action:

Brooks and Winbery, Syntax of New Testament Greek (Lanham, MD: University Press of America, 1979), pages 83.

I’m not sure where you’re going with the rare future perfect tense. The future perfect describes action that will be complete in the future. This surely does not apply to “rooted” and “grounded” (founded) in Ephesians 3:17. “Rooted” and “grounded” (founded) describe completed action in the past. Notice the following descriptions of the future perfect tense:

http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/verbs1.htm

http://www.classics.uiuc.edu/dsansone/Everything.pdf