Double standard in worship?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by webdog, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. webdog

    webdog
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    I asked this on another thread, and didn't get an answer...so I'm doing this in it's own thread.

    Those who hold the the strict "worship" style, one that is not culturally relevant (suits and ties, hymns only, expository preaching only, etc.) but is more traditional, do you have VBS or something similar?

    The reason I ask, is there are plenty here who speak out about the service being "worldly" (the incorrect application of the phrase biblically) because of modern music, topical preaching, and incentives for the lost to visit (I guess this is "seeker sensitive"). Now, if you do VBS, how are you not adhering to your very own standards? Do you eliminate games, snacks, story time, etc. that are *gasp* relevant to the audience in favor of strict expository preaching? If not, isn't this a double standard for one demographic to another?
     
  2. Johnv

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    Hmmm, well, our pastor doesn't wear a suit or tie, we sing contemporary worship music, and preaching isn't exclusively expository.

    We also don't have VBS. The adults are too old to go to VBS. But do DO have coffee and snack items before church. I'm sure that someone till find the fact that we allow beverages during worship to be worldly.
     
  3. rdwhite

    rdwhite
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    I don't wear a suite or a tie. About half the time I wear blue jeans, boots, and a western shirt. Sometimes I'll wear brown pants instead. If I want to dress up I'll wear a bolo tie, if I really want to dress up I'll put a sports coat on.

    We have both hymns and contemporary worship. A pianist and organist play before the service and during the offering. We have a praise & worship band that lead us to worship before the message. After the message the pianist will come back and play during the invitation. During the praise and worship on Sunday mornings the words are on the screen, but for our other services we usually use the hymn books.

    I preach whatever God directs, sometimes its a verse by verse study through a book, sometimes its expository, sometimes its topically, sometimes its hostile. I almost always have a cup of coffee on the pulpit while I'm preaching.

    I think the problem is modern day pharisees sticking their noses in other churches' business. In other words do what you want and leave us alone, we will worship God the way we want.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Your comparison is false and you do not understand what expository preaching is.
     
  5. webdog

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    You don't have a clue what I know. Are you set to answer the question now? Do you have VBS? How is making the Gospel relevant for children different than making it relevant for adults?
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    I know you know nothing about expository preaching because if you had you would not have used it the way you did.

    Secondly if you wanted an actual answer to the question you could have explained yourself earlier instead of this game.

    And what you failed to see is that I did not say we should not have had these things in the church. I will attempt to explain it one more time. If you say that we need these things to win people to Christ then you are saying that something other than the gospel is necessary. It is not about having those things it is about adding to the gospel.

    And you continue to use the word culture incorrect. These things are sub-culture and do not produce a better understanding of the gospel.


    a. the cultural values and behavioral patterns distinctive of a particular group in a society.
    b. a group having social, economic, ethnic, or other traits distinctive enough to distinguish it from others within the same culture or society.

     
  7. webdog

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    Like I said, you don't have a clue what I know. The "expository preaching" tag I got from someone here who had a problem with topical or "pop" preaching.
    S
    yet for the third time you don't answer it. Who's playing the games?
    Non sequitur, as I have never seen anyone here state the Gospel needs to be added to. The railing is against the means of spreading the Gospel (coffee, doughnuts, contemporary music, etc.)
    I supplied the very definition of the word culture, and my use of it falls squarely in line with the definition. I'm afraid your branching off into sub-culture is not on topic.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    When you use it incorrectly you tell on yourself.

    You separated this from the answer. Why?

    When it becomes a requirement to win people it is adding to the gospel.

    And once again you failed to deal with the definition of sub-culture. Why?
     
  9. Johnv

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    Whoa, did I read that correctly? Did someone actually imply that coffee, doughnuts, contemporary music, is adding to the gospel? Please tell me I'm reading that wrong.
     
  10. webdog

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    Unfortunately it is correct. The irony is he won't answer if his church has VBS, which by his flawed definition is adding to the Gospel in reaching children.
     
  11. webdog

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    Like I already said, I used it how it was presented, so those that sit in the same camp as you are the ones who don't know what it means.
    Don't know what you are talking about.
    Who said anything about "requirement"?
    Because it is a red herring and irrelevant.
     
  12. jcjordan

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    Excuse me? Are you saying that the gospel is irrelevant unless it is presented in a certain way? Do you think that the Word of God depends on schemes of man in order to make it relevant. Now hear this!! The gospel is relevant! I will proclaim it, but it doesn't need my help in making in relevant!
     
  13. Mexdeaf

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    Hmmm, we have contemporary music. No one in our church wears a tie unless he feels like it- some of our folks come with shorts and flip-flops on. We have coffee (decaf and regular), but no donuts. I preach expository sermons. People get saved and discipled.

    WHAT AM I DOING WRONG???





    :laugh:
     
  14. Zenas

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    No double standard here. VBS is not worship, it's vacation bible school with the emphasis on vacation. It's meant to be fun and games with some basic teaching about Jesus. Church service is not meant to be fun and games. It's meant to be worship and it's meant to be serious. Somehow I fail to understand how one can choose to be casual when in the presence of the King of Kings. If you were invited to dine with the President (even this President) every one of you who goes casual to church would wear at least a coat and tie, shoes, socks and long pants. So why do less for one who far outranks every president and every king who ever lived? It doesn't make sense.
     
  15. Mexdeaf

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    When I see a picture of Jesus with a suitcoat and tie on I'll start doing likewise.

    :rolleyes:

    I have my devotions in my pj's and have even prayed in the shower. I'm pretty sure that the Lord who created me without a stitch of clothes on was not offended. And no, I wouldn't go to church in my jammies or my birthday suit, but I'm not going to put a penguin suit on either- a strip of cloth hanging from my neck to my navel isn't going to impress God and it shouldn't impress you. Now if that's your style, go for it.
     
  16. Johnv

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    No, church is not meant to be fun and games. However, that does not mean that church should be devoid of fun and games to be considered effective worship, nor is it required to be devoid of fun and games in the course of sharing the Gospel.
     
  17. webdog

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    I'm not saying that, nor ever have.
    On a side note...do you avoid snacks, games and stories in VBS or Children's Church and just lay into them like an adult? If not, whether you admit it or not, you are making the Gospel "relevant" to your audience.
     
  18. Timsings

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    We do have traditional worship with the elements you mentioned except that our preaching is not expository only. We had VBS last month. I think you have drawn a false distinction about traditional worship. If it is traditional that does not mean that it is not culturally relevant. It seems to me that making application of scripture to our situation today is an important part of preaching, especially expository preaching.

    One more thing. Don't get too worked up over Revmitchell's posts. I used to argue with him. :BangHead: Now I read him for entertainment purposes only. :smilewinkgrin: (Don't stand too close. He's about to let me have it.)

    Tim Reynolds
     
  19. jcjordan

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    I don't think relevant is the right word to use here. The gospel is relevant regardless of how it's presented.
     
  20. Salty

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    Thats because the liberals have confiscated and hid all those pictures :smilewinkgrin:
     

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