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Double Standards and Gender

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by jaigner, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Yes I mean theological liberals.
     
  2. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    if that was meant only for one audience then cut it out of your bible because it is worthless today. The thing is it was for all times and for all peoples and to stand against it is to stand against God.
     
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    While I find your reasoning for your statement questionable I do agree that the men need to take the roll they were called for. I would point out one thing however. If the women are doing what they do grudgingly then I understand your position and the complaint since it would be being done for the wrong motive, but if they are doing it to serve the Lord from love then what is the beef since they will be rewarded and the men will not?
     
  4. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    You're just completely incorrect. Believing women can be church leaders does not make one a liberal.
     
  5. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    It is a liberal view without doubt.
     
  6. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Well the alternative is lost and not able to understand. Liberalism stems from, in my opinion, a desire to reject clear teachings and do things from one's own logical stand point instead of a faith stand point. Those women are liberal in their belief in this area along with being rebellious, proud, and selfserving.
     
  7. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    Um--how can we judge the hearts of those women who may disagree with SBC teaching on women in the pastorate?

    We cannot. Only God can.

    We might consider them wrong, ill taught, or a hundred other things, but we have absolutely no idea whether or not they are rebellious, proud, or self serving.

    When we start doing that, judging that we know their hearts, we sin.

    We can judge actions as being right or wrong according to our own understanding of scripture, but not hearts.

    Out of line.

    In fact, it smacks of being proud, rebellious, and self serving, doesn't it?
     
  8. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    Most generous response yet. Good job.
     
  9. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    I think Nodak is partially right here. We (we complimentarians) cannot know whether a woman who desires to be a pastor is simply ill-taught and sincerely desires to honor God by becoming a pastor; or if she WANTS that position and has adopted the theological view that will give it to her.

    Either way, that woman is just as likely to be rebelious, proud, and selfserving as someone who has their theological ducks in a row. Ie, just as likely as any of us...and that gets amplified when someone attacks our position, as many will attack her position.

    But Just because someone is arrogant, proud, or self-serving, or disregards valid objections to their theological views does not mean their theological views are wrong. It means they are a sinful human being who may be defending a true theological position in a prideful arrogant way...or they could be defending an incorrect position in a prideful arrogant way. (Which means by the way, just because someone on BB is rude or arrogant does not mean their position is wrong, so it makes no sense to say, in effect, "You aren't really listening to my points, and you are arrogant, so you are wrong!")
     
  10. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    I am sorry for your error. It is not an SBC teaching. It is a scriptural one that is taught well beyond the SBC.
     
  11. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    Aren't you forgetting that, though most of us are convinced we're correct on these sorts of issues, there's the chance that we could be wrong? This isn't a cut and dry issue - there is a lot at play here. And I'm not ill-taught - I've been taught both positions by committed evangelical Christians.
     
  12. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    Well, she would have to be the husband of one wife. This would make her a lesbian. Don't you think this would disqualify her as a pastor, I do?
     
  13. jaigner

    jaigner Active Member

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    Um, no, and I think that's one of the weaker arguments. It's saying that a pastor shouldn't have multiple wives. Women wouldn't have had more than one husband. Plus, Paul was speaking to a 1st-century crowd in which women would have been considered little more than property. We' can't responsibly interpret "husband of one wife" to me "only men can be pastors for the rest of time."
     
  14. Robert Snow

    Robert Snow New Member

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    This is just justification to skirt what God says. It does not say the spouse of one spouse, it says the husband of one wife.
     
  15. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Actually the Greek does not even say that. Unfortunately the translators decided the Greek did not mean what it says so they interpreted the text, instead of just translating it and made the text read "husband of one wife." In doing this they have caused an enormous amount of confusion. The Greek reads a "one woman man." This is about character. The man has to have the character of having eyes, desire, heart, for only one woman. A man can be married to only one woman and still not meet that qualification of being a “one woman man”. By the way MANY are! Again it is a "one woman man" not the "husband of one wife."
     
    #35 freeatlast, Nov 20, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2011
  16. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    True, but If I believe my position to be right, I can assume one of 2 things about someone who argues the opposite: (1) They have been taught and accepted the wrong view, or (2) they know the right view, but choose to disobey it.

    You could say the same thing about complimentarians from your perspective: We either (1) are wrong, or (2) are chauvainist pigs who know that the Bible allows women to be pastors but simply want to keep our place of power.

    Unfortunately, most of the arguments I hear from egalitarians attach us on the 2nd grounds, Not really dealing with the biblical issues trying to show us our error.
     
  17. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    All I meant was ill taught was this: whatever the issue, where we think we are right and a fellow believer wrong, it is better to assume someone taught them wrongly than to just write them off as rebellious, proud, etc.
     
  18. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    Well, she is. Not as big a joke as her husband, but a joke nonetheless.
     
  19. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    The hatred from the theological left is astounding.
     
  20. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    Not left, just not fundamentalist like ole Dot and Paige.

    Come on now, they don't crack you up just a little? I don't know anyone who aspires to be like Dot. Do these women exist or are they manufactured at the "women studies" department there at Southwestern? It really is a weird Stepford Wives situation going on there.
     
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