Downsizing the Ten Commandments

i don't believe in downsizing God.
i don't believe in downsizing his words.
i don't believe in downsizing the TEN commandments.
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edit the 4th eh.

well - what about that scripture in the new testament that says "the Sabbath was not made for man but man for the Sabbath" ?

what's it mean?

well - sabbath basically means a 'day of rest' etc.

the 'Day of Rest' was not made for man - man was made for the 'Day of Rest'

the 'Day of Rest' doesn't need man - man needs the 'Day of Rest'

Sabbath doesn't need man to keep it - man needs the Sabbath. period.

God bless

 

How many times have I told you, BobRyan, 'downsisesing' the Ten Commandments is to pit it against Jesus Christ; to pit it against Christ is to place it in apposition to Christ. The two are incomparable, cannot be sized up up one against the other. Paul said it best, the glory of the Law becomes as NO glory against that of Jesus Christ. NO GLORY! Just by insisting upon it in the place of insisting on Jesus Christ only and alone! My patience with is getting short!

 

GE:
Your very own 'edition'? Novel, i must say.

 

wow. i don't even know where that one came from.

ok mr. know-it-all -- what is the definition of Sabbath? it does mean rest.

and the sabbath wasn't made for man.
man was made for the sabbath.

if you don't agree with that i think you need to go back to pre-school or learn how to read or something.

wow. just wow.

 

Actually Bob is putting words in my mouth, something he has a propensity for doing. I challenge him to find an actual quote of mine where I used the word "down-sizing." I never did.
My statement all along has been that the Sabbath is not for the Christian, and there is no statement in the Bible that commands the Gentile Christian to keep the Sabbath anywhere, this side of the Second Coming of Christ. Bob has failed to prove me wrong. So he takes another route, a bit less ethical.

There are Ten Commandments. One of them does not apply to the Gentiles, only to the nation of Israel, which Exodus 31 so emphatically declares.

Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
--It is for Israel only. The Scriptures make this clear.

When we come to the NT, this is what we read:

Romans 2:14-15 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another.

--Which law is written in their hearts? The Ten Commandments? NO! Not the Ten; but rather only some of the Ten. God wrote His moral law on the hearts of every man. He wrote the last six commands for sure. He has given everyman a consciousness that there is one God. But beyond that we cannot say anything about the Sabbath, taking the Lord's name in vain, (if they don't know the Lord's name), making images of God and bowing down before them, if they don't know who that God is. So perhaps God has put seven out of the ten commands on every man's heart, but not all. The simple thing to say is that God has written his moral law on every man's heart which does not include the Sabbath.

 

and the New Covenant was only for the house of Israel according to Jeremiah 31 is it?

Jesus said 'if you love me keep my commandments' - why bicker on what commandments those are? keeping the sabbath holy is a commandment is it not? doesn't matter who it's to. it's still one of GOD's commandments.

if we love him. keep his commandments.
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oh i'm waiting for you to break out the levitical laws. oh i'm just waiting. c'mon. do it. you know you want to.

 

No the Ten Commandments are not "MY commandments" The Sabbath was not included when Jesus said "Keep my commandments." He was referring to "Love one another," Men ought always to pray and not to faint; Search the Scriptures; Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel; Ye shall be my witnesses; You must be born again; etc.
He said: Keep MY commandments. not Moses' commandments. He was discipling his followers, teaching them. They already knew the teachings of the OT. He wasn't being redundant.

 

oh. so the commandments that God gave to moses on the mountain... those are moses' commandments now?

those are still God's commandments - Jesus is God. (the whole Trinity deal)

and 'love your neighbor' - that is the summary (along with love the Lord your God etc) - a summary of the whole of all the commandments.

Jesus (God etc) - said to 'keep my commandments' -- which commandments are those again?

oh right... we're allowed to pick and choose. i forgot. i'm sorry. my bad.

 

One of the commandments of God to Moses was to cross the Red Sea. He gave that to Moses too. That's one commandment I don't obey.
Another commandment God gave to Moses that I don't obey is to keep the Sabbath Day. Both crossing the Red Sea and Keeping the Sabbath were given to the Israelites not to me.

 

I never presented a downsizing argument. You did, and then said it is mine. That is deceitful. I said that of the Ten Commandments nine apply to us and one does not. That is not downsizing anything. That is rightly dividing the word of truth. So your slander stands.

 

alright. you make a good point.

my probing question you could say then is this... why wouldn't you want to keep the sabbath day and keep it holy?

 

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This 4th commandment says the the sabbath day was blessed and hallowed by the Lord. How then do we ignore that? This was important to the Lord, I'm not saying the other nine wern't but the sabbath was set aside and santified.
Not to forget the health benefits when taking one day and just resting. But now that is to to say, if your neighbor needs a hand you shouldn't use the sabbath as an excuse not to help them... go help em' because we ought to do good on the sabbath. I think thats what Jesus was trying to get across to the Pharisee when he told them about the ox and helping the neighbor.
Most every command in Exodus (not just the 10) and those in the Levitical law was given for good reasons... for the good of mankind.

 

GE:

If you are thinking of only the Ten Commandments as the Law of Jesus Christ, you down-sise as well as downgrade both! Seriously so!

 

We have three stances taken in in this thread, the SDA, the DHK, and an attempt at a fuller understanding.

Here is the SDA:

"Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This 4th commandment says the the sabbath day was blessed and hallowed by the Lord. How then do we ignore that? This was important to the Lord, I'm not saying the other nine wern't but the sabbath was set aside and santified." (Music4Him)

DHK:

Nine Commandments

GE:

Exo 20:11 For . . . LORD . . . RESTED the seventh day: WHEREFORE the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This 4th commandment says the the sabbath day was blessed and hallowed by the Lord. But why? "Because He RESTED and through and in His REST, established His creation. God's REST is what completes "ALL the WORKS, of God" (Hb4:4-5) How then do we ignore that? This was important to the Lord, I'm not saying ANY of the other six days' works weren't, but the Sabbath was set aside and santified, blessed and fulfilled in and through God's works of redemption which were the one work of Jesus Christ completed in resurrection from the dead. Were it not for Jesus' victory in and through resurrection from the dead, dead would all His works have become, His whole creation disappeared in the void.

 

DHK:

" Keeping the Sabbath (was) given to the Israelites not to me."

Then why and how do you keep Sunday for 'Sabbath'? I've never seen anywhere in Scripture that God gave the gentiles a command or just a clue or the least of reason to keep Sunday. Why then does DHK even sanctify Sunday and hallow it - is he perhaps God?

 

DHK:

"--Which law is written in their hearts? The Ten Commandments? NO! Not the Ten; but rather only some of the Ten. God wrote His moral law on the hearts of every man. He wrote the last six commands for sure. He has given everyman a consciousness that there is one God. But beyond that we cannot say anything about the Sabbath, taking the Lord's name in vain, (if they don't know the Lord's name), making images of God and bowing down before them, if they don't know who that God is. So perhaps God has put seven out of the ten commands on every man's heart, but not all. The simple thing to say is that God has written his moral law on every man's heart which does not include the Sabbath."

GE:

Natural man has none of God's commandments written in his heart. He doesn't care about any, but is TOTALLY DEPRAVED (we as Calvinists believe don't we?). If his conscience bothers him, unregenerate man shrugs it off merely and invariably - even though he is condemned for his audacity. He knows nothing of God's 'moral laws' otherwise he must have been enlightened by the Holy Spirit, either unto condemnation, or to salvation. You know that; why do you proclaim falsities?