Downsizing the Ten Commandments

GE:

I accept; I agree; Ibelieve; I hope, the same. This Scripture also applies to after Christ would have come.

Difficult to understand how the majority of Christiandom would not think so too.

 

DHK:

"I never said that Sunday was hallowed or sanctified. You need to withdraw your words on the basis of what you say, not on the basis of what I do. Unless you can find a quote where I said such, you simply lied.[/quote]

GE:
On the basis of what you, here, admit that you "never said that Sunday was hallowed or sanctified", I withdraw my words to the effect that you did. That is not admitting anything of what you have argued against the Sabbath, is sound argument. In fact, you, DHK, holds - to me - a quite novel position concerning the Sabbath; you do not represent what one might call the standard viewpoint of the Church in general. In other words, you do not only oppose the SDA-viepoint and mine, but also that of your own Church.

For this is the crux of the matter, that the Sabbath was given to Israel -- to ALL Israel -- i.e., to the Church, as it is said in Hb4:9, to "the People of God". No Church, no Sabbath; no Israel (TRUE Israel) no Sabbath. But since both are as real and true today as ever in the past or in the future of the new earth, it says, "a keeping of the Sabbath still remains"; and, the Sabbath is made -- in other words, exists -- for the purpose and for the sake of man". It was made and existed specifically first for the Representative Man, Jesus Christ, and then for man in the sense of God's Elect of the Church Visible and Present.
DHK, "the Sabbath was made for man" - for these who are, Israel and the Saviour of Israel; it had NOT been 'made', and NEVER 'existed' for the Isael of DISOBEDIENCE. This is the missing dimension within your perspective. This TRUTH, is what you ignore flat as if you do not understand it. But you do understand it, and I am forced by your own argumentations to recognise a certain dishonesty about it.

 

GE:

This really is unfair, DHK. It is not Bob who argues like this; it is you.

 

I enjoyed this Music! "stop for a minuet and remember what God did for us" --- the kind of Sabbath-keeping I believe in : It is a Feast God gives His People to spiritually eat and drink ( to the dismay of the envious even, Col2:12-17) .

 

GE:

Again I just love you putting it, Music, ". . . Jesus put a new spin on it ..."

Now here's 'the spin' I perceive: that Jesus in these verses gave us a straight-forward indication the Lamb of God would do God's great work of salvation and redemption, right on, the Sabbath, and would not only have "made the Sabbath FOR" that purpose and end; but that He would even WORK, THROUGH it, to that end and purpose. He "sanctified the Sabbath" didn't God? For what else? He "blessed" it and upon it, "rested" and "perfected", for what else BUT GOD'S OWN, REST - in that He would "enter into His own REST "as GOD IN HIS OWN", resting? What else and where else but in and through Jesus Christ - the Lamb of God here in these verses saved from torment and hell and death, victorious?
Jesus hinted at much more and greater than our good duty; He hinted at His own good duty to save us through dying and rising -- wherein the Sabbath found its New Testament meaning.

 

Amy.G:
"Those gentiles did not observe the Sabbath as they were not Jewish. They came to hear Paul preach, which HE did on the Sabbath."

GE:

You wear dangerous spectacles, Amy.G! These same 'Gentiles' frequented the Synagogue, more faithfully than did the Jews! The Jews illmannered stormed out under Paul's very preaching while the Gentiles remained seated and heard Paul out. They - not the Jews - invited Paul like courteous hosts should, to visit THEM again the next Sabbath. The Gentiles were in control - sort of acted as the Kerkraad. They could teach the Jews good manners, as well as good Sabbath observance.

 

If those Gentiles didn't observe the sabbath what were they doin in a synagogue on the sabbath??? And why did Paul preach on the sabbath? :laugh: Was it his custom or did he follow Jesus' example? Remember that Jesus was Jewish and it was his custom.

Luke 4:16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

 

Amen GE! :godisgood:

 

The whole Christian Church should be ashamed because of its great regard for Sunday. The whole Christian Church should repent its dependance on Sunday-keeping for its very existence, and should acknowledge the anti-christ origins and fast-holds of its religious observance, which in Paul's opinion was a weak and beggarly first principle of wordly bondage.

 

GE:
You want to tell me, Amy.G, that you believe that Jesus rose from the dead on the Sabbath Day?

 

Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week.

 

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your point of view), "the Sabbath scope is not for all mankind," and that premise cannot be demonstrated from Scripture, unless you butcher the Scripture like you just did above agan by quoting partial verses out of context.

 

Jesus said in the book of Matthew....

Matt. 11:27-30 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

I put emphasis the part where Jesus said, "and learn of me". We can read the bible and learn His customs and His comands and use His walk as to how we ought to conduct our lives as Christians.
Even the book of Esther ought to teach us that we need to learn about the king (his laws, rules, customs ect.) so we know how to please him.

 

So we learn that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, not the servant of it. He did not necessarily keep the Sabbath. "My Father works; and I work."
Never in any verse in the NT is a Gentile commanded to keep the Sabbath.

 

BR:
"...the Sabbath SCOPE was STILL "ALL mankind"..."

GE:

Ja and no; the 'sabbath-side' I agree with you; the unconditional "ALL mankind"-side, not. Why? because I'm a Calvinist -- an 'electionist'; you, a 'universalist'.

The Sabbath indeed had been given to Israel and Israel only as the People of God exclusively - to NO unbeliever. Even when given to the Gentile, that Gentile must through faith first become an Israelite - spiritually, that is. The Sabbath is not for the unregenerate, but for believers only -- always!

 

GE:

Then you have no reason to have endorsed what I have said about the Sabbath - for the Sabbath in the Christian era has no foot to stand on but God's works He rested from through and in Jesus Christ in resurrection from the dead. The principle firstly, why Jesus would and did rise from the dead, on no other day than the Sabbath (Rest-Day) of the LORD your God.
The actual reality of the event and day;
and the actual and true words of the Record, in the third place, why you - holding all this to apply to the First Day of the week - have NO RIGHT to have agreed with me. Do not steal the God-given honour of the Lord's Day for your own Sunday. It is against the Word of God.

 

You with your Seventh Day Sabbath and all, are Sundayists as much as are the Sunday-worshippers, because you bestow on the day of the lord Sun, the virtue, the purpose and the service God intended for the Sabbath and through Jesus Christ in the rising of Him from dead, gave it, and no other day.

 

In a word, dear Amy.G, in having said, "Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week", you display lack of both knowledge and insight. As most well-meaning Christians do.