1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Downsizing the Ten Commandments

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Jan 27, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 5 of 6
  1. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    GE:

    See the vulnerability of the 'Sabbath-believer'! See at the same time, the genuine justification of the Sunday-keeper! And it is so EASY! You simply provide them both with 'The Word of God', like you, have here given, 1Cor16:2.

    Now who can object? No one! of course. Until judgement day. Judgement day for some when Christ shall come; and for others, for those who know the truth, already!

    And that truth is this:

    Acts 20:7:
    "AFTER THAT THEY HAD COME TOGETHER FOR HOLY COMMUNION AND WERE TOGETHER STILL WHILE BEING EVENING of the First Day of the week, Paul dealt with the disciples until midnight" -- most probably on matters of their itinerary, considering the context.

    That was 'Saturday-night' -- while the "evening" of the First Day was its first half and not its second. 'Jewish' reckoning still lasted. So on the 'Jewish' Sabbath, they HAD before, come together for Holy Communion, so that they, it being the evening after, could "discuss matters" re Paul's departure "the next morning" of 'Sunday'.

    DHK, whose word is that as written in your quote of Acts 20:7? Were the 'translators' predisposed or not? For undeniably obvious, they were!
     
    #81 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 2, 2007
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
     
    #82 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 2, 2007
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    GE:

    This is good observation and perception. DHK does owe us an answer.
     
    #83 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 2, 2007
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    GE:

    Nevertheless, dear Bob, can't you realise one might KEEP the Sabbath in honor of THE GOD-made COMMAND of God's Living Word, Christ raised in the flesh, Man, on the Sabbath made for Man (... and, for man)?
     
    #84 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 2, 2007
  5. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I'm going to be a little mean:

    Quoting DHK:
    "One of His Commandments is not to keep the Sabbath."

    Text please?
     
    #85 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 2, 2007
  6. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    DHK:
    "Isa.66 ... is a statement describing a condition on the earth after the second coming of Christ, and has nothing to do with this day and age now."

    GE:

    DHK representing DHK declaring. General and good old Reformed Protestant position is it does have everything to do with this day and age now.
     
    #86 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 2, 2007
  7. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    DHK:
    "One service in Acts 20 and many others to follow. The pattern was a well established custom as can be seen in 1Cor.16

    1 Corinthians 16:2 on every first day of the week, let each one of you lay by him, treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I may come then collections may not be made;

    If you read the first verse, you will see that Paul gave the same instructions to all the churches throughout Galatia. It was on the first day of the week, for on the first day of the week they gathered together."

    GE:
    One service in Acts 20 and many others to follow. The pattern was a well established custom as can be seen in 1Cor.16

    1 Corinthians 16:2 on every first day of the week, let each one of you lay by him, treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I may come then collections may not be made;

    If you read the first verse, you will see that Paul gave the same instructions to all the churches throughout Galatia. It by implication was on the SABBATH day of the week, for on the SABBTH day of the week they gathered together, throughout Acts as throughout the LATER Gospels.
     
    #87 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 2, 2007
  8. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    That is an easy one GE. One cannot prove something that is not there. You have given an logical fallacy. It is up to you to give the text, not me. Nowhere in the NT (the gospels especially for that is where we find the words of Christ), do we find any command of Christ to keep the Sabbath. Christ never commanded us to keep the Sabbath. If he did you give me the text. You demonstrate to me where he commanded us to keep the Sabbath (NT).
    He said: If you love me keep MY commandments, not the Ten Commandments.
    There is a difference.
     
    #88 DHK, Feb 2, 2007
  9. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    What implication? The custom had now been to meet on the first day of the week as Paul intimates in verse one. How can you deny that? He states as much. He says that he had done the same thing throughout the churches in Galatian, and you go and put words in his mouth, or change what the Bible says and state that they met on the Sabbath. Amazing! But that is not what Paul said! Is it? Why are you trying to rewrite the Bible to justify your own belief? They met on the first day of the week--Sunday.
     
    #89 DHK, Feb 2, 2007
  10. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian

    I admit, DHK. It was me using as you say, a 'logical fallacy' I said I was going to be - or try to be - a little mean. Maybe that might have explained. Nevertheless, you're right. Jesus never gave us a command in words to keep the Sabbath - He gave us all His life, and especially His resurrection for Divine impetus to the Christian feasting of His Victory and the Day of His Victory. That is no logical fallacy, but Divine inuendo.
     
    #90 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 3, 2007
  11. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    .... innuendo; inurement --- from Christ.
     
    #91 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 3, 2007
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    An accusation with no substance DHK? How surprising that you would do that in Mark 2:27 having never shown ANY context that violates the pure quote of the text that SHOWS the inconvenient details you so seek to ignore. Notice that in YOUR reference above you quote NONE OF IT!

    so the contrast we have is that I DO quote the text EXACTLY as it reads - you flee from its EVERY DETAIL!

    The difference is left as an exercise for the reader to summarize. It is sad that you at first UPHOLD the text of scripture and then in this example can not bring yourself to embrace even ONE DETAIL in it!!

    The DETAIL in Mark 2:28 (ALL OF THE DETAILS) are that "Christ is LORD of the SABBATH".

    Can you not bring yourself to fully QUOTE this text EITHER??

    This is your limit in "bible embracing" action when it comes to these Sabbath texts given to us by God??

    Surely you can warm up to the text a little better than that DHK!

    It is not going to bite you.

    Another hollow accusation with NO proof at ALL DHK? How "surprising"

    You sir have not quoted the text AT ALL much less done exegesis on it!!

    You seem to be satisifed that "empty assertion after empty assertion" that contains NO QUOTE AT ALL of the text is "better than" actually QUOTING what GOD said - and letting God's Word STAND as written!

    Summarizing the contrast is left as an exercise for the reader.

    Really? Is that because Christ is NOT God no matter what the Bible says to the contrary??

    Is that because The Word of God is NOT the Word of Christ no matter what John 14 says to the contrary??

    Is that because the COMMANDMENTS "As in KEEP the COMMANDMENTS" (something Christ stated REPEATEDLY in the Gospels) would not have been KNOWN to Christ Listeners as INCLUDING the Sabbath commandment EVEN THOUGH we are told that they "RESTED on Sabbath according to THE COMMANDMENT" in the Gospels?

    Summarzing The difference between your empty assertion and the actual inconvenient details of scripture opposing your views is left as an easy exercise for the reader.

    Indeed - this is another text you can not even QUOTE when fleeing from the DETAILS of the text.

    This texts SHOWS what you constantly DENY -- that the PRe-Cross OT intended SCOPE for the Sabbath AFTER the fall of Adam was STILL "ALL MANKIND" for God tells PRE-Cross Jews "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" in the ideal future established by God.

    Thus making it clear EVEN in the OT that God SO LOVED THE WORLD and intended His salvation and His Sabbath "FOR ALL MANKIND".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #92 BobRyan, Feb 3, 2007
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    71
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    In Acts 20 we see that on one occasion a local church gathered for a farewell service...

    DHK then "imagines for us"...
    Sadly - they are all missing from the text of scripture. to see them we have to start reading "DHK chapter 1 vs 1".

    1Cor 16 makes no mention at all of ANY gathering on weak-day-one.

    The act of INDIVIDUALS saving at the START of each week so that no fund-raising drive would be needed when Paul arrived is well noted.

    But these INDIVIDUAL acts of saving at the start of the week are not CORPORATE acts - they are INDIVIDUAL acts of setting aside funds.

    NOT one single weak-day-one meeting referenced in all of 1Cor 16.

    However - this is where the thinking Christian has to ask the obvious question. "IF God WERE to introduce WEEK-day-one as THE LORD's DAY is this not the PERFECT place to actually STATE IT!! Why not have a little fanfair as do Christians today DETAILING all the reasons for the NEW Sabbath and the NEW holy day and the NEW title of LORD's DAY ... something like REMEMBER the FIRST day for it is THE new LORD's DAY for WORSHIP oh and ALSO for collecting what you have already saved up PRIOR to LORD's DAY".

    There is NO text in 1Cor 16 saying "for on each week-day-one you all GATHER together" such a text is not found in all of scripture. the aBSENCE of NT writers saying all the wonderful things about week-day-one that you can hear today by those who believe in such high honor bestowed on that day is deafening!!

    How could these writers be LAUNCHING this new concept with such deafening SILENCE -- when todays group must clearly SAY in distinct doctrinal statements what they merely ASSUME and INFER from the NT writer's in cases where they actually BELIEVE in such a doctrine??

    Notice that when God ACTUALLY Launches A day of rest and worhsip it is THUNDERED from heaven ... and repeated even by Christ "The SABBATH was MADE for MANKIND".

    Think about it!!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #93 BobRyan, Feb 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2007
  14. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    GE:
    The implication created by Luke's use of the Perfect Participle and no finite verb, that "Paul dealt with the disciples it being evening of the First day after that they before had gathered together for Holy Communion." Question answered fully!

     
    #94 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 3, 2007
  15. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    GE:
    The implication created by Luke's use of the Perfect Participle and no finite verb, that "Paul dealt with the disciples it being evening of the First day after that they before had gathered together for Holy Communion." Question answered fully!

     
    #95 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 3, 2007
  16. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    GE:
    The implication created by Luke's use of the Perfect Participle and no finite verb, that "Paul dealt with the disciples it being evening of the First day after that they before had gathered together for Holy Communion." Question answered fully!

     
    #96 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 3, 2007
  17. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    What Luke - not Paul - said.
     
    #97 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 3, 2007
  18. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2004
    Messages:
    9,025
    Likes Received:
    8
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Then by the way, where does Paul in Acts 20:7 or nearby, "... says that he had done the same thing throughout the churches in Galatian"?

    Do you perhaps put words in his mouth, or change what the Bible says and state that they met on Sunday? But I know it was an oversight, so won't mind not to receive your reply.
     
    #98 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Feb 3, 2007
  19. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    Bob why are you upset at me for not quoting entire contexts? I took the four references that you gave and gave an answer to them. You had already quoted what you thought were the pertinent parts. Was there a need for me to be redundant. Your accusations are indeed foolish.
     
    #99 DHK, Feb 3, 2007
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    You are not reading. He says that he had done so in 1Cor.16:1. I am sure that you can read that verse for yourself.
    You have changed what the Bible says to suit your own purposes. You need to study Genesis chapters one and two. God worked six days and rested on the seventh, the seventh being the last day of the week, not the first day of the week. The first day of the week is Sunday in case you hadn't realized that yet. Once you understand that fact the reading of the English language will become much more simple for you.
    To emphasize ti again for the Sabbath-Day challenged:
    Seventh Day of the Week = Sabbath
    First Day of the Week = Sunday

    Here are some scholarly comments to help you along in your understanding:



     
    #100 DHK, Feb 3, 2007
Page 5 of 6
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...